Is non binary about gender roles not sex?

[Jackshouse]

I am so thoroughly confused. I am a biological female, yesterday I bled the radiators, re pressurised the boiler and watch tv when my biological male partner but the toddler to bed. This is non binary?

I don't get 'non-binary' at all. I really don't. Everyone is either male or female, that's it. Everything else is just your personality.

It particularly pisses me off when it's used by the likes of Travis Alabanza as an excuse to use whichever changing rooms he fancies on the day.

No. Just no.

I think when the kids are using it they mean 'androgynous' or 'GNC'. But then of course they pile a whole lot of crap on the top of that. Because as we all know, sex is a binary blah blah blah.

I don't understand this either. People say they don't identify as either a man or a woman so they are non-binary. I don't identify as a woman, I am a woman.

I actually think we're going about the whole gender discussion the wrong way. There should be no particular behaviour ascribed to either sex and then gender wouldn't be a thing anyway. I find it very annoying when people talk about being assigned the wrong gender because they hate wearing dresses/ want to wear a dress (I have definitely heard people say this) because those things are not biologically defined are they? I think I'd be much more open to people feeling that they really were biologically wrong in the first place if society wasn't so ridiculous about what being a man or a woman actually means.

Attention seeking is all it be about.

Does anyone over the age of 30 describe themselves as 'non-binary'?

Mookatron yes, I understand gender as a social construct. Is non binary just not following that construction?

OldCrone I am too old to be non binary then!

There is no such thing as non-binary.

There really isn't.

We need to keep saying that, over and over again.

There is no such thing as non-binary

Alternatively, everyone is non-binary.

I have just been pondering this. I think non-binary must relate to gender, not sex, because sex is binary and there’s no way of changing that. Whereas you can express your gender any way you choose, and try to look androgynous.

We are probably all non-binary in that people are very unlikely to be completely masculine or feminine, whatever those words actually mean in reality, which will vary in different cultures. It's ridiculous that we are supposed to fit into stereotypes that have oppressed us for centuries. Binary and gender is all such twaddle.

It's nonsense, isn't it?

I struggle - especially now I'm 60 - to see which gender constructs I actually follow. I'm just back from the gym and sitting here in a t-shirt (men's medium), shorts (men's medium) - I am wearing a crop top, but that's because I have breasts - I wouldn't if I didn't. I have short hair (as I have had for about 35 years now) and don't wear make-up or nail polish. Last time I wore a frock was for a wedding a few years ago.

Am I "non-binary"? If so, who fucking cares?

If non-binary was a rejection of gender roles I’d be happy with it, but it isn’t, it’s a rigid redefinition of gender binaries so that someone can then sit in the middle and feel special.

If you are a girl who likes to climb trees you are just a girl who likes to climb trees.

That’s only ‘non-binary’ if you accept there’s some rule against it.

Arboreal pursuits are not a gender-marker or else all monkeys would be male.

I wonder if people who think that non porn presenting women are 'non binary' because their Overton Window has been knocked out of kilter?

In the relatively benign cases it's an individualistic solution to a collective problem (instead of challenging the stupid expectations placed on people based on their sex, you individually opt out, and everyone else is assumed to/expected to just deal with it).

Then there are the less benign cases (Travis Albanza, Alok).

It’s meaningless. Almost everyone is non-binary.

But I have seen people describe themselves as eg ‘AMAB non-binary trans woman’. So, basically a person in a body who wears clothes and behaves in ways.

It’s a bunch of contradictions. Anyone who describes themselves in these terms is someone who is not capable of critical thought, and really self-absorbed and immature to boot.

Jackshouse as far as I can see, yes, that's what it is. So you've got loads (well probably not loads) of people believing they were born in the wrong body but really they're being oppressed by the same old gender norms. But people are telling them 'yes, you're right, the problem is you.' It's nuts.

Non-binary is about gender, you're still either of the male or female sex. None of us 100% adhere to society's idea of what being a man or a woman is, so we are all non-binary.

And (sorry to bang on) if feminists say 'actually the problem is not with this person but with the whole structure' then they are shouted down as denying this individual its right to decide, which is not the point at all. I have no argument with individuals getting on with their lives in the best way they can but really we should be saying 'the structure is wrong' not 'let's change individuals'. Anyway I'm not arguing with you and nor did I mean to patronise you with an explanation of gender constructs I just really think everyone's lost their minds on this issue!

So ‘non binary’ discussion just get in the way of feminism?

Is trans the same as non binary or not?

Sorry if my musing are I’ll informed by the way I am just trying to start navigating this issue.

I'd say non-binary as a concept is based on a misunderstanding of the way societies and socialization work.

Mermaids say that gender identity is based on what you wear and how you act.

Jackshouse I think it does - but maybe we should see it as the beginning of the end of gender instead? That would be a good thing.

I am ill informed on trans issues (and honestly I don't care about single sex bathrooms) but it seems to me that gender dysphoria - the thing that prompts people to be transgender - is only a thing as long as gender norms are a thing. I personally don't think a transwoman is a woman because they have not had all the cultural 'feminine' input of a ciswoman, but I don't think that makes them less a person (and frankly on a day to day level what difference does it make to me what people call themselves)?

I'm non binary.

If I was a teen now I'd be trans. I identified as a boy from around 4-16. I'm extremely I'm not a teen now, I love my kids! Wouldn't have been able to have them and feed them if I'd been put on puberty blockers and squished my hated breasts with a binder.

I still don't identify as a woman. I don't feel like a woman. What does woman feel like? The only way I can define it is through biology. Every month I feel like a woman when I'm in pain and bleeding.

The rest of the time? Nah. I just feel like me. Still the me that doesn't like my female body. But I don't feel like a man either, as what does man feel like?

So I guess, as I sit here, ignoring the housework, in my jeans, t-shirt and trainers, and no make up, contemplating the decorating and furniture building I have to do, I'm pretty non binary.

Or maybe I'm still trans, but in denial? Though I don't want a penis. So I actually have a mangina?

It's all so confusing. Because I'm just me and I don't feel a need to go telling everyone how I feel and how they should address me.

Basically I think the non binary thing is complete bollocks.

Non binary is a means for middle class people to capture attention and resource to which they would otherwise not be entitled.