Given that nearly every university student seems to believe TWAW, will sanity ever prevail?

[Velella]

That's it really. They are tomorrow's politicians, teachers, lawyers. I am at a loss to see how we can turn this round.

They don't.

The young people at work don't believe it.

My kids and their friends don't either.

Fear not.

thetab.com/uk/edinburgh/2018/08/30/the-backlash-to-pronoun-badges-shows-transphobia-is-alive-and-well-at-edinburgh-47376

Edinburgh students seem sceptical, much to the disappointment of the author of this piece.

What does appear to be the case is that trans students seem very invested in entering political groups at university, thus those voices are heard.

Thanks. I was beginning to get rather down about it. A couple of young people I have spoken to were completely on board. But small sample.

If I'm ever asked for my pronouns for a badge, I'm going to insist on eff/off

My kids don’t believe it either. Young kids don’t. Which is why the lobby feels the need to indoctrinate educate them from primary school age.

That Edinburgh article is priceless.

15 years ago when I was a student, I had completely rejected 'feminism' and believed that as a woman I had equality. Then I entered the real world and my perceptions changed. Going out to work and then having children made me see the world in a very different way. Even if students believe that now, it doesn't mean they'll still think that way in a few years time.

I was talking to an adult on Friday who kept saying but what’s the harm in saying that TWAW and, she seemed to think that anyone who really felt they were a W should be treated as one. She’ll never end up in a refuge or a prison, unlikely to need NHS care & feels it doesn’t affect her in anyway & we should just worry about these poor sad people’s feelings being hurt.

BigGreenOlives, people are usually happy to ‘be nice’ till something affects them personally.

So city women were peak trans’d by Pips Bunce, others by Girl Guides. For me it was more about the shutting down of free speech and debate, and followed on from some similar virtue signaling/no debate on Fb from woke Momentum/Green friends. Self ID uses the same

My DC have been bemused by their mum coming out as a radfem. (I doubt I am actually - but there you go.) However DD messaged me a link about US swimming allowing trans girls to compete against girls yesterday. If the same happens in her sport it will not be safe. It would be a huge loss.

So one by one people are getting the message. We are many, they are few.

They don't. I work with an especially woke group of young people and although they are very, very supportive of LGBT people, when push comes to shove they don't actually believe that men change into women due to "ladybrain" or vice versa.

The main barrier they run into is that they are so new to the "real world" outside uni and used to seeing powerful old birds like me at work (or their mothers, let's face it) they think that feminism has won everything. I really shocked a couple of them last year when I told them of the last time I had to put up with a ridiculously inappropriate, OTT sexist comment at work (only four years ago). They really were thinking that all of that was sometime in the distant past.

Nobody believes TWAW. Otherwise everyone would ignore them.

Maybe someone here can remember the details better... but in the US, at one of the "seven sister women only" colleges, there was one handmaiden activist in particular who was credited with being largely responsible for her school to admit trans women. I used to see pictures of her on social media constantly, shouting with a bullhorn and holding signs.

A couple years later, all of a sudden, she went frothing at the mouth as was usual for her, to not saying a word, literally overnight. (I personally suspect a trans woman raped her), and then a few months after that she pubically admited she changed her mind, that she no longer believed that TWAW.

I've also had seriously vocal handmaidens confide to me privately that they do not believe that TWAW. (These convos would take place AFTER I'd gained their trust and mis-represented myself as a timid and confused old lady.) I'd ask them why then were they were so energetic about hating "T" -- and their reply? Well gosh they wanted to be kind.

Most of these idiots are going to be extremely embarrassed when they lose their abortion rights in the next year or two, and the transwoman scream at them to stop complaining about biological reproductive functions because the subject is triggering to TW.

They don’t
They banter abou5 it but the6 really really don’t think that a guy can turn into,a lady
So stuff the Wokies post on twitter is just like a wee thingie like I seen an alien last night
No u never u was drunk as usual

from frothing

My son was complaining about Generation Pronoun just this evening. He’s a fresher and thinks it’s all stupid.

I suggested he was best if thinking of it as like a religion, you can be polite to those that believe in it whilst refusing to partake.

He doesn’t believe in God, and he certainly doesn’t believe that one’s reproductive sex can be determined by personal choice.

My DC have been bemused by their mum coming out as a radfem. (I doubt I am actually - but there you go.) Mine too ! One argued hotly about the subject until she saw her gay flatmate ‘managed out’ ( some nasty stuff) of the uni LGBT Society leadership for not toeing the new party line and daring to express mildly GC views and the other rolled her eyes about what she called her ‘situational rebel’ friends, who are now busy working their socks off in their grad jobs.

The young women doing STEM subjects are likely to be all too aware of good old fashioned sexism (thanks, Prof Strumia!) so will understand 2nd wave feminism is still needed.

You don't hear from them because they've got better things to do than student politicking and pontificating like, er, actually studying seriously hard stuff.

When I was at uni the Christian Union was throwing their weight around and picking a fight with whoever they could. i can't even remember why now, which tells you a lot about this debate too. I think it might have been to do with them refusing to say homosexuality wasn't a sin but it could well have been about something else.

It was in the student newspaper a lot and one or two friends were caught up in the aggression of it but after feeling a bit naive about what was actually happening, I realised it was all centred on a tiny fringe of people looking for a fight. Most students were completely caught up in their own lives and problems. It's (slightly) similar with this debate although this is a larger debate Most science students, in particular, will be rolling their eyes and not paying it any attention to trans issue at all.

I sometimes go down a rabbit warren of clicking on various trans accounts on FB. One particular time I found a photo of a university Christmas party - it was the LGBT society I think but they were clearly mostly trans. It was about 15 students at most and I'm going to be very blunt and rude and say the photo screamed 'misfits.' They were kids who would have been bullied at school for being socially awkward. Half looked like they needed a good wash and none passed as the opposite sex, I'm sorry to say (I felt sorry for them. Most people would). I wouldn't have shared that photo anywhere what with that being unkind but I think if you could have seen it you'd realise how unthreatening and lacking in influence these young adults are. Yes there are some very powerful aggressive MRA's doing a lot of damage right now but no most of those students' peers would not be swayed by them opinions. They'd pity them too, if anything. A lot of people are making a lot of noise and most will bitterly regret it in time and move onto other things. I feel for them in that regard

They don't! My 14 year old said to me that it is just said as a way to bully and silence people. And he's a typical 14 year old (head in the clouds half of the time)

The only people who do yell that TWAW in the institution I work with are a tiny number of libfems in the femsoc, which is pitifully small, sadly. A couple of people from the LGBTsoc, also remarkably small. and about 5 academics.

I would say that it's more public sector that we need to concentrate on. Especially social work and related fields. They seem to have been leaned on hardest by the TRA propaganda machine. However, I think once the witch hunts have calmed down, they will also give their heads a wobble.

I have teenagers and we have GC conversations because they are not at Uni yet and forewarned is forearmed.

I also find it interesting that there are a number of people who are “professionals” in this line of work who remain in the bubble. For example the trans man who was on Queer Eye on the episode on the second series “Skye’s the Limit” to celebrate a party for Skylar’s top surgery. After transitioning at Uni and becoming estranged from their family, Skylar had stayed within the academic setting in some kind of position I believe helping LGBTQ students. It was also interesting to me that the Fab Five were really trying to transition Skylar to an adult male image which Skylar seemed to find quite threatening because Skylar seemed very young and immature in Skylar’s mode of dress. The boys were trying to ditch a lot of the rainbow flag motives for example.

I guess what I am trying to say is that to maintain a certain amount of delusion and to cope many individuals seem to stay in a cultural bubble.

I felt for Skylar as being in the US the medical bills were enormous and not covered by insurance.

Young people are often idealistic and will latch on to something like this because it's painted as a 'progressive' cause. They'll probably be like any other generation of university students though, half of them will probably be Tories in a few years time.

When I was a student I had almost no feminist consciousness at all and I came through fun woke feminism to get to where I am today (very radical leaning and much better read on feminist discourse, though I still have a really long way to go). Women mature. I fully expect that I shall continue to mature and read and learn.

You shouldn't judge the future of society by what a load of 20 year olds are saying.

Of course many boys will go through their whole lives not giving a shit about women's liberation because that is a luxury they have, while we still live in a patriarchal society the next generation of feminists will always emerge.

Loving the Edinburgh students - the comments are priceless!