Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Aggressive Feminism Boards

999 replies

PerverseConverse · 07/10/2018 09:38

I've been on this board for a while now and long enough to understand the issues and why women are so vocal about them and angry that our rights are threatened.
I'm frustrated reading on other threads, or on social media that this board is aggressive, shoots down discussion, and calls people names if their views don't match the majority. I can't say that I've seen that myself. All I see is intelligent discussion and persuasive arguments. Any goadiness is appropriately dealt with from what I've read as are any views that don't match reality. Maybe that's what upsets people: that their delusions are challenged with indisputable reality.
I'm still new to feminism and learning daily but I see women fighting for other women and prepared to get flak for that. I see some women who have been well and truly brainwashed by the trans movement and by men and the patriarchy in general. And that's the other criticism: that we are too focused on the trans issue. That makes me angry. The trans issue is the major one affecting women and girls at the moment and it's right that we are focused on it.
These complaints are coming from women who are calling themselves feminists and it baffles me completely that feminists can't understand the biggest threat to women and girls.
Now, I'm aware these so called feminists may well be trolls but I don't think they all are. How can some feminists be so opposed to other feminists passionately protecting their rights? Rights that are for ALL women.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
VerbeenaBeeks · 07/10/2018 12:31

I love a good debate. When people are telling me I’m a man/handmaiden/a fucking libfem and not actually debating is where I have the issue

Same.

BrownPaperTeddy · 07/10/2018 12:31

Obviously causing harm is not sufficient to make something illegal. What is your point and how does it relate to the tone of debate on this board?

I am answering the point that only facts and proof are ever relevant - in either discussion or law making.

They aren't the only considerations. Opinions are valid in arguments. Views and beliefs are used in the making of laws.

That is my point.

Earlywalker · 07/10/2018 12:33

I find it very interesting that alot of us on this thread have been pushed consistently to define what a woman is by GC people but when we engage and state our own points, people are unable to respond.

Ereshkigal · 07/10/2018 12:34

Who is unable to respond?

Elephantinacravat · 07/10/2018 12:35

What is a sign you can produce ova then?

Surely when we are talking about denoting to be of the sex that produces ova, we are talking about fixed things? So not whether you appear to be a woman when you walk down the street or in a profile picture, but then when someone gets up close it is obvious you are a man. That definition of female just wouldn't work because it's not fixed, you would be a 'female' until someone realised you weren't, which isn't a workable definition for a dictionary definition.

So that can't be what 'denotes to be' means in that context. It surely must be things which are fixed, like certain chromosomes, body parts etc

What is your definition of woman?

As I said, men over history have had no issues whatsoever working out who are the males and who are the females, so i do feel like all this discussion over 'what is a woman' is kind of pointless. We all know what a woman is, you only have to look around you, watch the news, look over history to see that we know who are the men and who are the women.

OunceOfFlounce · 07/10/2018 12:35

Ok well if your genuinely confused as to why murder is illegal but killing someone during war is not I suggest you do some thinking about extenuating circumstances.

I think facts come first when thinking about sadeguarding.

VerbeenaBeeks · 07/10/2018 12:35

I wasn’t ‘telling’ you not to, it’s obvious I mean like, you have the option not to come here. This is just derailment. We have stuff to do

How on earth is it derailment when it is literally what the OP was about?

Ereshkigal · 07/10/2018 12:36

I am answering the point that only facts and proof are ever relevant - in either discussion or law making.

Having an evidence base is really quite important though. There is no evidence base for something that rests completely on opinion. The definition of a female does not, whatever you may think. Just like it may be an opinion that the world is flat or held up by turtles, but it's quite a misguided one without the necessary proof.

BrownPaperTeddy · 07/10/2018 12:36

@Ereshkigal

But your post about your mum having a hysterectomy was on the thread about the fake news article about smear tests wasn't it?

Hence my referring to said fake news article.

The article was fake, a spoof, clearly not real.

Elephantinacravat · 07/10/2018 12:37

Same.

Verbeena you don't even appear to know what debating is, let alone claim to love a debate!

Ereshkigal · 07/10/2018 12:38

But your post about your mum having a hysterectomy was on the thread about the fake news article about smear tests wasn't it?

No it was on the locked hide a thread thread. And it was a low blow, though no surprise from that particular poster.

VerbeenaBeeks · 07/10/2018 12:38

I find it very interesting that alot of us on this thread have been pushed consistently to define what a woman is by GC people but when we engage and state our own points, people are unable to respond.

Exactly, these threads show exactly what is wrong with the board. People ask a question, people answer but they just can't see. Rhetorical questions, circular argument.

Ereshkigal · 07/10/2018 12:39

I don't even know what article or thread you're referring to.

BrownPaperTeddy · 07/10/2018 12:40

Ok well if your genuinely confused as to why murder is illegal but killing someone during war is not I suggest you do some thinking about extenuating circumstances.

I am perfectly capable of understanding this. It is called nuance. It isn't black or white.

Something that some people here should consider. Fixed thinking won't work.

There has to be a nuanced argument.

Bowlofbabelfish · 07/10/2018 12:40

Views and beliefs are used in the making of laws.

They are. They aren’t in science though. Humans are sexually dimorphic, they certainly can’t change sex and the words Male and female have clear, unambiguous definitions.

That men are a danger to women where women are vulnerable is also a fact. And thevlaw reflects this by having just a few places and spaces where men are excluded.

So to anyone saying self ID is fine, I ask you do you thinkbmaking all these services and spaces unisex will be safe?

And if so, why do you think that, when the facts show it to be false.

Ereshkigal · 07/10/2018 12:40

Again, please say who is failing to respond? Otherwise you're just throwing around baseless smears.

TeddyIsaHe · 07/10/2018 12:42

Roll call of everyone posting on here that agrees with self-ID:

That’s right. None. Not what the debate is about.

Bowlofbabelfish · 07/10/2018 12:42

There’s nothing nuanced about this teddy. where’s the nuance?

Men in women’s spaces. Not a good idea. Will lead to assaults, and women being unable to use spaces.
Removing the way of defining women - will lead to the equality act being unenforceable.

Where’s the nuance? Because when people start arguing for that it seems tonoften mean that we just allow the main thrust of the idea through and be placated with crumbs. And again, the answer is no

VerbeenaBeeks · 07/10/2018 12:44

Again, please say who is failing to respond?

I didn't SAY people are failing to respond!! Confused You are proving entirely what is wrong with the board.
You're either incapable of reading, or so firmly welded shut you refuse to accept views.

Ereshkigal · 07/10/2018 12:45

didn't SAY people are failing to respond!!

That was exactly the subject of the post you were responding to Hmm that we are all unable to respond.

BrownPaperTeddy · 07/10/2018 12:45

No it was on the locked hide a thread thread. And it was a low blow, though no surprise from that particular poster.

Then I unreservedly apologise for the confusion.

An article was posted yesterday about smear tests. It was obviously fake. Yet many FWR posters piled on to use it as proof that what they predicted had finally happened. It wasn't proof at all. It was a spoof. Very obviously fake.

Earlywalker · 07/10/2018 12:45

Elephantinacravat - for someone that dismissed my point of it being superficial appearance so bluntly, you’ve put a lot of ‘surelys’ and ‘it must’ if the definition is so important to the GC movement, so much so that a billboard was placed giving it - i’d have thought you’d all have a pretty clear idea of the meaning. However only a few of you have even engaged with my points, let alone defend them with your definitive answer.

I’d like to refresh a question I asked earlier, if any of you feel able to answer it yet?

Why are definitions so important? As I said earlier, the definition of marriage was A man and A woman, I can envisage homophobic people constantly throwing that in the face of those fighting for gay rights too. So those fighting for the definition of a woman, what are your thoughts on that?

Ereshkigal · 07/10/2018 12:46

Why don't people read things properly before responding?

VerbeenaBeeks · 07/10/2018 12:46

So to anyone saying self ID is fine, I ask you do you thinkbmaking all these services and spaces unisex will be safe?

I don't think anyone doesn't have any concerns about free for all self ID?

Roll call of everyone posting on here that agrees with self-ID: That’s right. None. Not what the debate is about.
Exactly. It's the fact that some have a problem with all trans.

OunceOfFlounce · 07/10/2018 12:46

You literally just quoted someone saying people are unable to respond and,said 'exactly'??

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

Join Mumsnet Log In

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.