Gender neutral toilets at Bournemouth Uni **Thread title edited by MNHQ**

[PretendingToBeAMuggle]

Please can you help me with links/arguments against men in female toilets? (I'm waiting for clarification as to whether this is a post for a third toilet space - gender neutral, rather than encroaching on female only spaces.) But expect to get massive flak and probably backlash. This is a group I'm in on Facebook which promotes being 'woke' and is probably full of TRAs waiting to shout Down and dissent. As you can tell I'm not very articulate but any help to my argument would be greatly appreciated, I'll post screenshots below

Sorry yes Bournemouth and individual gender neutral indovodual cubicle toilets it appears, unclear if women only toilets continue to exist

At any uni, and for sure at B'ham there must be a lot of Muslims (of both sexes) for whom this may be problematic. For which reason if no other I'd actually be very surprised if there aren't still single sex loos available.

My university certainly wasn’t thinking about its many Muslim students when it enshrined self-ID in its policies, thereby allowing males into the communal female changing rooms at the gym and swimming pool (no cubicles available) or creating a situation where a female student could end up sharing a bedroom with a penis owner.

All this is a failure in its statutory duty to promote good relations between groups with different protected characteristics.

Surely regular men’s/women’s toilets are gender neutral? No one cares which gender you identify as, just use the appropriate one for your sex.

Surely regular men’s/women’s toilets are gender neutral? No one cares which gender you identify as, just use the appropriate one for your sex

Exactly, they were already gender neutral. What these are is unisex.

It's just a fucking toilet!

Yes and who you want to share this space with.

Thanks all, the threads moved on and v little comment was made of my questioning (I'd suspected I would either be labelled a transphobe or ignored as their is no logical rational for penises in female toilets. I'm slowly starting to discuss this issue after lurking on the feminist boards and was the first among my friends to bring this up, they share equal concerns but seemingly like most politicians are afraid of the backlash of speaking out in anyway against self-id

The thing is - this isn't just accommodating transsexuals - it's sharing a space anyone at all whether they 'identify as man/woman/horse'.

Imagine being in a quiet train station or club and being bothered by a creepy guy. What if you can't leave but need to get the hell away - you go to the ladies loo and speak to other women (hopefully it's not empty). So if the loos are unisex, Creepy McHands-on can follow you in. Fantastic. All to appease a teensy minority of very vocal and aggressive activists.

Misandry alert....

I suppose there are no "creepy" females in the world?

I have been in the unisex toilets in a quiet art gallery when it was just me and a man. It would have been extremely easy for him to push me into a cubicle and assault me, had he so desired.

They are mixed sex toilets and should be sign posted that way.

I suspect women will silently and automatically change their behaviour accordingly to avoid them so it will never actually be a ‘problem’. After all, haven’t we had a lifetime of walking a different route, crossing to the other side of the road, avoiding places where men are as they might embarrass, humiliate or attack us? Or we just don’t want to sit in the piss of some lazy fucker who can’t be arsed to lift the seat.

It automatically excludes women, none more so than women who need single sex spaces for personal/religious reasons.

Will - ever been groped, pinched or raped by a woman? Had lewd and aggressive 'suggestions'? Been stared and stated at and completely scared? Been catcalled and proposioned when in your school uniform?

No I thought not.

I’ve never had a Female corner me as a child, touch my arse, grab my tit, show me their genitals on the street, comment on my body as I pass them by, touch themselves on a bus in front of me... so Will, I’m guessing creepy females? Not so much.

My friend was propositioned by a woman in the ladies loos of a gay nightclub. She said 'no thank you I'm not gay' and she bought her (the friend) a drink.

Nope, not had any of those things happen to me from men either.

I guess that things like unisex / gender neutral toilets all stem from the drive towards equality, for everyone, including men, that not only extends from equal access to jobs, services and facilities, but to unprejudiced attitudes as well.

It's funny how it's OK to say we don't want men in our toilets, because there's a perception that they're more likely to be creepy, but it would be completely unacceptable to say the same about someone because of their skin colour, regardless of whether there is any evidence or not....

The solution is to design the toilets better, not to discriminate against a particular group of society.

Uni open day yesterday. Pleased to see single sex although who knows how long it'll last. Not naming for fear of a shaming. (Of the relevant Uni).

A week or two ago a report was published saying two-thirds of women had experienced some form of harassment or abuse. I think this is somewhat conservative.

I’m happy for you Will that you’ve never had any of these things happen to you. I consider you to be lucky.

Most unis are aware of their broader target market and so I can't see them getting rid of single-sexed toilets altogether. I hate unisex toilets and have never struggled to find single-sex toilets in universities.

The NUS has guidance on this to help students argue for gender neutral toilets: www.nusconnect.org.uk/resources/gender-neutral-toilets-guide

They do also say: “Some people may feel uncomfortable using gender-neutral toilets, and as such there should always be both gendered and gender-neutral toilets available. If there are only one set of toilets in the building, you could use the accessible toilet model – designating all disabled toilets gender-neutral and for everyone.”

This is the group, it's positive in many ways and very supportive of members, but there seems a distinct lack of any debate re self-id, TRA underhand behaviour, and standing up for segregated women's area. Anyone more informed than me it would be great if you could start a discussion and see what ensues from a group of women whose raisin de etre is to smash the patriarchy 🙄

www.facebook.com/groups/punkymomsUK/

I have been in the unisex toilets in a quiet art gallery when it was just me and a man. It would have been extremely easy for him to push me into a cubicle and assault me, had he so desired

He could have done that anyway. As you could have him. The sign on the loo door doesn't change that.

Well d'uh - it's a door.

If he tried to walk into a ladies loo
one, that would have been a warning bell to start with
two, you could tell him to leave
three, you could scream blue murder and call security.

If he tried to walk into a ladies loo one, that would have been a warning bell to start with two, you could tell him to leave
three, you could scream blue murder and call security

You can still scream blue murder and call security. And what good is telling someone about to attack you to leave. What do you think they are going to say, sure thing, my bad and go?

The point is if a man wishes to attack you in a quiet area, the fact rhe loos are single sex won't stop that. I'm shocked anyone would think it would.

And quite frankly, she wasn't attacked was she. The way some folks go on it's like every trans person wishes to assault them. Ffs.

Who said he was trans? I never said that - I said if a man walked into a ladies loo you could challenge him.

Women need their own space. If loos are unisex then anyone can walk in.

Women's loos were first brought in because women were excluded from much of life by not being able to go out for more than a few hours at a time

Unisex loos will mean that Muslim women & girls - and some of other faiths - will be excluded from those institutions that have them

That is institutional racism

In developing countries like India, they are building more women's loos, to try to reduce the horrific rates of rape

Women need single sex spaces because it is not safe to let in the sex which commits the rapes and 98% of he sexual assaults
With single sex spaces, the women there can tell any men to leave;
just as important, anyone outside those spaces, anyone responsible for administering the spaces can stop men enteing the loos in the first place.

When it is an offence for any man to go into women's loos and when the police can be called for this,
it makes a difference
to when the woman has to prove she is not being transphobic in wanting a particular man removed