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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Stonewall Champion School - HT asks 'what safeguarding concerns?

80 replies

HandsOffMyRights · 05/10/2018 11:42

So my son's Stonewall Champion school has replied to me after I raised concerns about Stonewall. He said he'd look into it and came back to me asap (possibly after a quick Google)

HT says it is proud to be an inclusive school and then sent me several negative news stories around TransgenderTrend (after I suggested these as an alternative)

Next steps? Lisa Muggeridge, I need you!

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6
Redkeyboard · 05/10/2018 11:47

Send him the letter in the Times about Stonewall’s stance on female rights and the Guardian’s article that told both sides of the story.

Ask him for the materials Stonewall have provided.

Badstyley · 05/10/2018 11:52

I’d go straight to their safeguarding document and put a massive red circle round all the parts their trans inclusion policy directly contradicts. Then ask him to explain how this is not the case. Try talking to some of the other parents if you can, you can bet they know nothing about it. One mention of boys changing with girls and the shit could hit the fan.

HandsOffMyRights · 05/10/2018 11:55

It's an all boys school (with the exception of sixth form)

I'm really disappointed that the HT has just sent a load of links, many from Schools Week and that this is possibly his first experience of the subject.

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LangCleg · 05/10/2018 11:56

Ask him about...

Allowing confidential disclosures
Rejection of multi agency working
Not keeping parents informed (thus undermining PR)

... and why all these things are recommended in trans lobby group material despite contradicting statutory safeguarding guidance, which is here:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/working-together-to-safeguard-children--2

RealGhouls · 05/10/2018 12:01

I don't think there is an alternative per se. But you would need to look at what a 'Champion' school is, what resources they are offering, and find alternatives

If anyone's interested, it looks like you can attend their 'Train The Trainer' course for £240.

www.stonewall.org.uk/get-involved/get-involved-education/secondary-schools/tackling-homophobic-biphobic-and-transphobic

I would look at what they are teaching and identify what is problematic about it. I'm not sure it's easy to reject them outright without pointing to what specifically about the Champion Programme is regressive.

It looks like these are some of the resources they use

www.stonewall.org.uk/our-work/education-resources?resource_category=274

In particular this one:

www.stonewall.org.uk/sites/default/files/getting_started_-_a_toolkit_for_secondary_schools.pdf

Note it was co-written by Gendered Intelligence.

There are some odd terms there:

"Homosexual
this might be considered a more medical term used to describe someone who has an emotional romantic and/or sexual orientation towards someone of the same gender. The term ‘gay’ is now more generally used"

What's 'medical' about 'homosexual'?

'A cisgender person
someone whose gender identity is the same as the sex they were assigned at birth. Non-trans is also used by some people'

'assigned at birth' is an offensive appropriation of intersex conditions.'

'Gender variant
someone who does not conform to the gender roles and behaviours assigned to them at birth. '

Gender roles & behaviours are NOT NOT NOT assigned a birth.

'This is usually used in relation to children or young people'

Whatt what what?

"Intersex
a term used to describe a person who may have the biological attributes of both sexes or whose biological attributes do not fit with societal assumptions about what constitutes male or female. Intersex people can identify as male, female or non-binary"

What the fuck no, this is horrible. Intersex refers to people with variant sex characteristics. It does not mean you are of both sexes you ignorant bastards. And it's nothing to do with 'societal assumptions', it's variant biology. Society does not ASSUME that people are androgen-sensitive, that's simple fucking biology (such that if you are androgen-insensitive you have an intersex condition, it's not an assumption)

'• not everyone identifies with the sex that they were assigned at birth'

sex is not assigned. Sex is innate.

'Transgender man a term used to describe someone who is assigned
female at birth but identifies and lives as a man. '

not fucking assigned.

'A transsexual person
this was used in the past as a more medical term (similarly to homosexual) to refer to someone who transitioned to live in the
‘opposite’ gender to the one assigned at birth. This term is still used by some although many people prefer the term trans or transgender'

No no no. Some self-identifying transsexuals understand 'transsexual' to mean that you have had surgery to change gender. Why are they erasing this? And again the assinged bullshit.

'Gender dysphoria
used to describe when a person experiences discomfort or distress because there is a mismatch between their sex assigned at birth'

It's not assigned

'Pronoun
words we use to refer to people’s gender in conversation – for example, ‘he’ or ‘she’''

Do you even English? A pronoun is literally a substitute for a noun. They are not used to 'refer' to a gender, it just happens that most pronouns are gendered, but that's not their purpose!

There's a bit of 'transgender people will kill themselves' propaganda there.

Some of the rest of it looks ok.

deepwatersolo · 05/10/2018 12:01

Muggeridge says you should ask whether they have checked whether the guidances are in line with safeguarding laws (starting at 6:30)

Or you just channel Lisa Muggeridge:

She gives good instructions on what parents should ask schools.
HandsOffMyRights · 05/10/2018 12:08

Thanks. Lots to think on. He emailed me positively to say he'd look into it.

Then, a very short while after he came back asking what serious safeguarding concerns I mean.

Then linked to the negative Schools Week stories about TransgenderTrend.

He wrote:

*It appears to me that the group is of concern in the way that it is going about its business. All of the groups we work with, including Stonewall, are nationally recognised and reputable organisations, including by the DfE:

www.gov.uk/government/news/schools-around-the-country-to-stamp-out-lgbt-bullying

I am happy that we are an inclusive and tolerant school and certainly want to continue to do the work and training we do around these issues*

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OldCrone · 05/10/2018 12:26

Then linked to the negative Schools Week stories about TransgenderTrend.

Did he actually look at the TransgenderTrend guidance, or simply accept second hand criticism of it? It shows a remarkable lack of critical thinking if he was willing to simply accept someone else's views of the document without even a quick skim read to form his own opinion.

The view that "the government endorses Stonewall so we'll do what they say" shows extremely lazy thinking. Such complacency is appalling coming from someone in such a position of authority. Gives them the 'just following government advice' defence when the shit hits the fan, though. Sadly many people will be thinking like this rather than of the wellbeing of the children.

gendercritter · 05/10/2018 12:30

I would definitely challenge him to actually read the Transgender Trend resource pack. If he's just relying on second hand repprts, he can't know it's wrong

HandsOffMyRights · 05/10/2018 12:34

Thanks. I'm really shocked by the level of critical thinking.

In Lisa's fab video she says schools will be receptive and HTs are worried about this. I had hoped for better than this.

Now I'm branded a TERF and a bigot.

Also, why is Schools Week so biased please? Not seen one GC story on there yet this is safeguarding.

I'm feeling really crappy now for raising my head above the parapet.

It's only when you've been following this madness that you know what really goes on with the Govt, advisors and certain media.

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HandsOffMyRights · 05/10/2018 12:37

I reported my above post for using a banned term.

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DayMay · 05/10/2018 12:40

These people will be deleting the emails in a short time, covering all of this behavior up when the press and random women inform the public.

placemats · 05/10/2018 12:40

This from WPUK Sheffield:

www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=524&v=ATNRbJW_JI8

'Professor Michele Moore is an expert in Inclusive Education and Disability Studies. She leads human rights projects across the world to support children, their families and those who work with them. She is the Co-Editor of the ground-breaking book Transgender Children and Young People, Born in Your Own Body from Cambridge Scholars. Michele will be discussing ideas from the book – the implications of self-declaration of gender for children and young people, including disabled children.'

It's all about education.

sashh · 05/10/2018 12:50

Ask him why it is UK for a male HT to take away the rights of the young women in VI form.

Ask how he thinks the girls' parents would react if he shared changing rooms and showers with their daughters?

deepwatersolo · 05/10/2018 12:52

Ok, ask him

  • if parents are ever not to be informed e.g. about the transidentity of their kid -> that goes against safeguarding
  • if sex protections which are in the Equality act are overwritten by self-ID -> goes against safeguarding / equality act
  • if watchful waiting is encouraged by their guidelines? (is currently state of the art in medicine, Travistock does that).
  • if kids are gaslighted by unscientific explanations (innate gender, pink/blue brain) that defy scientific standards.
NotZenEnough · 05/10/2018 12:53

Marking thread

R0wantrees · 05/10/2018 12:56

Guardian article identifies differences between the Allsorts / Mermaids / Stonewall (?) affirmative approach and Transgender Trend's toolkit

www.theguardian.com/education/2018/may/15/transgender-row-teachers-afraid-challenge-breast-binding

See also recent thread which has links to Dr Polly Carmichael (NHS GIDs) and Claire Graham's talks which are worth listening to.
They raise specific and important points that senior leadership should be open to listening to and considering.

R0wantrees · 05/10/2018 12:57

apologies, link failed:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3384961-child-in-my-class-is-trans

HandsOffMyRights · 05/10/2018 13:07

Thank you all!

I plan to create a robust email as I am deeply disappointed by his quick response and unmovable position.

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bzzbeebzz · 05/10/2018 13:07

Ask if they accept girls who identify as boys.

Then ask what it actually means for a girl to identify as a boy.

bzzbeebzz · 05/10/2018 13:08

Without using gender stereotypes

HandsOffMyRights · 05/10/2018 13:37

This article was also published in The Spectator today
www.spectator.co.uk/2018/10/dont-tell-the-parents-official-guidance-to-teachers-of-trans-children/

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MsJeminaPuddleduck · 05/10/2018 13:48

I've just found out that my children's school is a Stonewall Champion and the Equalities policy at a glance has similar issues - the odd focus on intersex (presented almost as a 3rd 'sex') jumped out. Thanks for all the advice above - I'll use it to draft a letter to the head next wk.

HandsOffMyRights · 05/10/2018 15:14

Let me know how you get on. I have just sent a three page letter to school (it could have been double that)

Bear in mind he may know nothing of the debate and assume it's bigotry. Imagine receiving links to recent Times and Spectator pieces.

I also referenced a previous Lisa Muggeridge letter (nspcc) that talked of Bradley and Challenors' influence in Govt and Stonewall

I also linked a Gendered Intelligence Guide and pointed out that advising recently transed girls to "wear tight Tshirts if they have the figure for it" is regressive.

I linked to the PP highlighting concerns with current Stonewall advice packs.

It sounds like he's not moveable.
It sounds like a conspiracy theory as this is too batshit to be real (he hasn't even heard the half of it)

I'm going to be burned at the stake aren't I? Never to show my face at the school show ever again.

Please reassure me I was right to go ahead and that my poor son won't be ostracised for it?

This is what TRAs reduce us to: pariahs.

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HandsOffMyRights · 05/10/2018 15:16

I think it is going to blow his mind. I maybe said too.much? But like Moyet, my card is already marked so may as well be hung for a sheep.

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