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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

National Autistic Society and Mermaids [Title edited by MNHQ]

875 replies

GColdtimer · 04/10/2018 12:56

My friend just posted this on Facebook this morning. She isn't on MN so I have her permission to share. She would really like more people, especially people with ASD or who have children with ASD, to write to NAS thanking them for their willingness to listen and their agreement that Mermaids is not reputable.

This is really great news so please can we keep this bumped and shared. Thank you.

If posters on the SEN board would like to share that would also be great (if appropriate).

Dear XXXX ,

Thank you for your feedback regarding the Gender and autism page on our website.

I’m writing to let you know that I’ve raised your concerns regarding Mermaids UK, one of the organisations we link to on our Gender and autism page, with a number of teams within the National Autistic Society. In light of the concerns raised in your message, and of other feedback that we have received, we have decided to remove all links to Mermaids UK from our website, while we take the time to consult with relevant professionals and to reconsider which organisations we wish to place links to on our website.

As such, our Web Team are working to remove all links to Mermaids UK from our website as soon as possible. Please do be aware, however, that, as we are currently in the process of updating our website to reflect our new branding and organisational identity, it may take a few days for this to be actioned.

Thank you again for bringing this to our attention, and I hope that you are satisfied with the actions we are taking in light of the concerns that you have raised.

Kind regards,

National Autistic Society

[Edited by MNHQ to remove personal info]

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 04/10/2018 14:42

Safeguarding against medicalisation through medical ethics is a huge issue in its own right. Particularly with reference to children.

The TRA agenda intersects right through it.

Thats in addition to concerns about whether the TRA agenda is being hijacked or open to abuse by people who have harmful intent to either politically to women and children or physically to women and children.

In a lot of ways its easier to dismiss the later as 'peodogeddon hysteria'. The former relies on deliberate misinformation and manipulation of data together with repressing research. That needs much more effort and energy to do. It requires the undermining of medical ethics - which in itself leaves vulnerable individuals vulnerable to the latter.

The TRA agenda is an anti-science movement. Its important this is stressed and placed into this context of being part of a much wider assault on our well being by commerical giants wanting to profit from our anxieties about our health.

It is not unique and not happening in isolation.

DayMay · 04/10/2018 14:42

From the recent YouGov survey, only a very small portion of the population believes males really can become women. No other religious belief is forced upon others. You can't force an atheist who doesn't believe in souls that a souls is in the wrong body. You can't force Catholics to believe God made an error and put the wrong soul in the wrong body. It's illegal and immoral.

DayMay · 04/10/2018 14:44

Disability is a protected characteristic and it's ok for someone on the autistic spectrum to be gender non conforming, for a girl to play football and have short hair.

placemats · 04/10/2018 14:48

I just love this!

Small actions making big changes.

Which sums up my son's autism.

Flowers and thank you for sharing.

PronounIsWitch · 04/10/2018 14:51

twitter.com/sisternotcister/status/1047843987837673472?s=21

Mermaids Helen not very happy about it

R0wantrees · 04/10/2018 14:54

I’m really wary of putting this on twitter, although mimmymoo has probably already reported back to Stasi headquarters. The NAS will get a massive pile on when this gets out and will probably capitulate after receiving ‘guidance’ .

Twitter comment from Helen (Mermaids)
"I’m very concerned to see that the National Autistic Society has been misled into removing signposts to the highly regarded trans youth support charity Mermaids_Gender by a small aggressively anti-transgender lobby group on Mumsnet

I’m sure the Mumsnet anti-transgender campaigners are very polite and convincing on email. Unfortunately people don’t realise that they’re well known for being horribly transphobic. Even the @ NSPCC backed out of activity with them because of it

There was a whistleblower earlier in the year who exposed Mumsnet as a place for “scaremongering and hate speech” about trans issues"

What I’m sure the people at @autism don’t realise, is that there’s a really nasty campaign going on at the moment where anti-trans lobby groups are targeting organisations that support trans people. @ stonewalluk has been targeted today, as seen here

That these people can stoop so low as to try and remove support signposting for vulnerable children is disgusting! 😣

It has been noted that there is a possible correlation between autism and being trans - surely that means it’s MORE important these children receive support?

I sincerely hope that the National Autism Society will rethink their actions, and not allow themselves to be suckered in by a small group of individuals with a bigoted agenda.

I hope they speak to REPUTABLE organisations for verification, not self-appointed lobby groups!"

twitter.com/mimmymum/status/1047840328135430144

Molokonono · 04/10/2018 14:55

Didn't somewhere post Transing kids as a cure for autism recently?

R0wantrees · 04/10/2018 14:58

Trans rights have gone wrong
The new gender orthodoxy allows no room for dissent
James Kirkup Spectator
(extract
"What explains the disproportionate number of girls (child ‘assigned female at birth’, to use the approved term) who are starting a journey that can lead to hormone treatment, then binding and ultimately removing their breasts? Is it possible that this is simply part of a wider crisis of mental health among girls?

I don’t know, and neither do the doctors and scientists who study this issue. If you talk to the clinicians at the Tavistock Clinic in London, the NHS centre for the treatment of gender-variant children, they’ll tell you that all the factors I mentioned may be at work, but the evidence base is still incomplete, that they need more time and data before offering explanations. (They’ll also tell you that quite a lot of the children referred to them as ‘transgender’ will in time ‘desist’ and decide to live in their original gender.)

The government now intends to commission research into all this. You might think that sounds sensible and mundane. You would be wrong.

According to Tara Hewitt, founder of the Trans Equality Legal Initiative (TELI), prominent campaigner for transgender rights and an adviser to numerous public bodies including the NHS, the proposed research is ‘absurd and offensive’. The project should be ‘dropped in the bin — it’s simply not an inquiry that needs to happen,’ Hewitt reckons.

This is the quintessential trans-rights response to scrutiny: even looking for facts about children’s welfare is transphobic. Just accept that trans girls are girls and trans women are women. End of debate. (continues)

That’s what makes Philip Bunce a woman, when he feels like it. Mr Bunce is a senior Credit Suisse executive who sometimes wears a dress and calls himself Pippa. On that basis, the FT recently named him one of its Top 100 Champions of Women in Business.

Such cases help explain why a significant number of women (and men) are deeply uncomfortable with the agenda promoted by Stonewall, TELI, Allsorts Youth Project and the rest of a loose network of ‘trans-rights’ advocates who enjoy immense influence in public life today, and significant public funding.

Others groups include Mermaids and the Gender Identity Research & Education Society, both frequently consulted by councils, NHS trusts, police forces and Whitehall departments for guidance on applying the law around transgender children. Both are tiny charities run not by lawyers but by parents whose children changed gender; it’s hard to think of another field of policy where personal experience is prioritised over objective expertise." (continues)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3384307-James-Kirkup-Spectator-lead-article-Trans-rights-have-gone-wrong-The-new-gender-orthodoxy-allows-no-room-for-dissent?

DisrespectfulAdultFemale · 04/10/2018 14:59

Didn't somewhere post Transing kids as a cure for autism recently?

It was a link rather than a post. Don't recall the URL, though. I am not sure if this is a good or bad thing. (The not recalling the URL; claiming that autistic children no longer exhibit autistic traits after transing is definitely a bad thing.)

DayMay · 04/10/2018 15:02

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mermaids-uk-charity-ban-as-boy-forced-to-live-as-girl-dvx3j99cn?shareToken

A taxpayer-funded transgender charity has been banned by the High Court from any contact with a family after the mother, who was being advised by the group, forced her seven-year-old son to live as a girl.

The latest accounts for Mermaids UK, published last week, reveal it has been granted £35,000 by the Department for Education (DfE) and a total of £138,000 by the national lottery’s Awards for All fund and the BBC’s Children in Need appeal.

It can also be revealed that until last week Mermaids was advertising “same day” cross-sex hormone treatment for children. NHS guidelines do not allow the treatment, which causes irreversible bodily changes and can compromise fertility, for anyone under 16.

In a court case, reported last year, Mr Justice Hayden removed the seven-year-old child, known as “J”, from his mother after finding she had caused him “significant emotional harm” and “pressed [him] into a gender identification that had far more to do with his mother’s needs and little, if anything, to do with his own”.

Social services had declined to act against the woman, saying she had “appropriately taken on board support from . . . Mermaids”. However, the judge accused social workers of “summarily disregarding” many concerns expressed by police and healthcare professionals about J because they “did not wish to appear to be challenging an emerging orthodoxy in such a high-profile issue”.

J was home-schooled and was dressed in girls’ clothes, the judgment found. After being removed from his mother, sent to live with his father and sent to school, he had “assert[ed] his own masculine gender” and lived life as a boy.

At the time, Mermaids attacked the “horrific decision”, insisted J wanted to be a girl and said there was “no evidence at all to support this judge’s views”.

Yet in separate Facebook posts it has now emerged that the charity admitted it had been “ordered to have nothing to do with this child following their removal”.

Until last Friday the youth section of the Mermaids website featured a message from Dr Birgit Möller, a Hamburg-based doctor, offering fast-track trans-sex hormone treatment for children. “If the families are interested we would set up a long evaluation appointment at our clinic (3-4 hours) and afterwards an appointment with the endocrinologist [hormone specialist],” Möller wrote. “In case of an indication for hormone treatment he would prescribe it the same day.”

The message was removed after The Sunday Times asked Mermaids about it.

Stephanie Davies-Arai, founder of Transgender Trend, a website for parents questioning the diagnosis and treatment of children as transgender, said: “I am concerned that Mermaids is indoctrinating children, scaring parents into thinking that [gender] transition is the only way and intimidating professionals.”

The DfE said it did not fund Mermaids directly but as one of 13 “partner” groups in an anti-bullying alliance.

Mermaids claimed last night that it was not the subject of the court order and that it was the family that had been ordered to have no contact with it.

placemats · 04/10/2018 15:02

Let me reassure you Helen, mimmymum, if you are reading.

My son is autistic. He says inappropriate things at times because he doesn't do deception - he is a hopeless liar. If it's a man, it's a man, and no amount of pink or lace or makeup will convince him otherwise. He is now a vulnerable young high functioning autistic adult. He is not a bigot nor does he hate trans people. He would never laugh or be hateful. However, he would never be convinced they are women either.

Hope you read this and understand.

SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 04/10/2018 15:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Acorninspring · 04/10/2018 15:03

I really hope NAS doesn't back down

pennydrew · 04/10/2018 15:04

I would caution too much twitter action on this, but if the NAS get harassed then step in maybe.

pennydrew · 04/10/2018 15:06

placemats Oh yes... my husband and daughter are hopeless liars too, but very kind and accepting people. They deal in facts though, far more than ‘feelings’

DisrespectfulAdultFemale · 04/10/2018 15:06

I am autistic. I sometimes struggle with social interaction but not to the extent that I am willing - or able - to be brainwashed into believing that men are women.

Ekphrasis · 04/10/2018 15:06

Fantastic.

I taught a primary aged child with autism who was very confused about their sex due to being gender non conforming (way before all this blew up, over 10 years ago.) luckily saw the right people and parents very sensible. The child really was extra vulnerable to external media influences such as the notion of "being trapped in the wrong body" and had begun to talk about operations when I had them when all they wanted was to enjoy the clothes and pursuits of their opposite sex. Later I heard they were apparently v happy in their body just v into fashion, and possibly gay.

I do remember reading however a piece possibly on the nas regarding gender non conforming children written by someone who was an sen teacher which worried me and was posted on mn at the time. Will try to find it.

RedToothBrush · 04/10/2018 15:12

Mermaids Helen not very happy about it

AAAAAANNNND Mermaids Helen is doing exactly what I said - using the peodogeddon argument - whilst avoiding the science led one.

And there is a DAVRO in their about lobby groups.

She calls MN FWR a lobby group.

Remembering MN FWR is a bunch of individuals not a formal organisation. Its grassroots activism without money.

Unlike Mermaids.

Follow the money. Lobbyists have money. Almost exclusively.

pennydrew · 04/10/2018 15:12

DayMay Wow, I did not know all of that. Same day hormone prescriptions? I can’t even get that with a medically valid hormone disorder.

pennydrew · 04/10/2018 15:14

RedToothBrush Right? A lobby group. Please. No dear, it’s just when women gather and work together we are awesome and powerful and actual lobby groups can’t silence us.

Ekphrasis · 04/10/2018 15:15

Here we are.

This definitely needs revising.

network.autism.org.uk/knowledge/insight-opinion/supporting-trans-and-gender-questioning-autistic-pupils

RedToothBrush · 04/10/2018 15:16

And do read

www.amazon.co.uk/Patient-Paradox-Sexed-Medicine-Health/dp/1780660006/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=margaret+mccartney&tag=mumsnetforum-21&ie=UTF8&qid=1538662490&sr=8-1
The Patient Paradox: Why Sexed Up Medicine is Bad for Your Health

And THEN consider why Margaret McCartney is concerned about how trans activism is trying to influence medicine.

CoolCarrie · 04/10/2018 15:16

I notice that this new drama Butterfly, which starts next week has a trailer with a scene in a meeting with a Mermaids poster on the wall.

Ekphrasis · 04/10/2018 15:18

In fact it think it's been revised as I don't remember anything about binders in it or "social stories about how to use toilets in their affirmed gender."

I believe when i did digging last time that the writer is possibly trans them selves.

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