Why is the feminism board fair game?

[WokerThanWoke]

• When asked what posters like about Mumsnet, they mention the fact that they don't like or hide the feminism board or say it should be removed, although that wasn't the question.

• There are always threads asking how to hide a board, without fail many posters join to say yes I hate the feminism board too.

• Posters make threads or post on existing threads telling us what we can/can't discuss on here.

There's lots I think that's pointless, boring or inane on MN but I just don't click on those threads or topics. I don't post on the threads and tell people how boring I think they are or that they should talk about something else.

Does it happen for any other board?

People on AIBU calling FWR vile? Oh the irony...

I've seen someone post on the feminism board who is not aware of current issues, and rather than use this as an opportunity to educate, some of the more regular posters have eaten them alive! God forbid if they are actually a man as well!

I'm not afraid to go against the grain on these boards, and don't really care if I get a flaming but other people do, it can be a harsh board if you don't agree with the majority of posters.

Also I think some of the more regular posters can come across as slightly intimidating, lurkers can feel like they aren't as clever or knowledgable and this can put them off posting but it's not the board of the long timers or self declared feminists, it's everyone's board.

I lurked for ages before I felt comfortable posting, I've been slated for saying my daughter likes pink and sparkly things which quite frankly should be the least of our collective troubles at the current time.

The Feminism board is where you find out the truth about how hated women are so some women/men need to hide it and critise it because if they didn't they might have to face up to the TRUTH and take the blinkers off. Mind you saying that if you really want to see pure hatred of women dip a toe into twitter, that place is horrific.

I love the FWR boards but if you don't, then the answer is quite simple, don't read them.
I don't understand how much of a hair trigger you'd have to have to get annoyed by scrolling past a few thread titles, threads that you don't have to engage with.
It seems ironic that in one of the few places we can actually discuss the impact on women of changes to the GRA we have posters who object even to the discussion.
It's a broad and fast moving subject, constantly evolving with the speed of the TRA tactics for silencing women, so it's going to generate lots of threads updating women on the situation.
The more we are able to speak and share, the clearer and stronger we get.
I'm not on SM of any kind so this is the place I come to daily for new information.
Thanks to all of you who put in so much effort and trawl through so much shit to keep us informed. I don't always comment but I do always read and I'm grateful.

LittleMissedTheSunshine I’ve been a lurker a long time and only started interacting last week. I have never seen anything that you speak of. I have seen disingenuous comments or women saying very anti-woman things being challenged. I’ve been challenged here, doesn’t make me scared to participate. I’m an adult. I am also quite tired of tone policing. Some people speak bluntly, curtly, that’s ok. We should reconsider our entitlement to emotional labour of others when it comes to conversing. I don’t want people wasting time and energy tiptoeing around me because I’m new here. Straight to the point, accurate, factual conversations, are a real rarity and I like these boards for that reason.

Feminism can be as uncomfortable for women as it is for men. It makes you question your own attitudes, your own family. Of course it’s going to put backs up. The suffragettes are celebrated now that they’re safely dead but they were reviled at the time.

Important thread collating the systemic failings / failure of Child Protection and Safeguarding:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3301266-Safeguarding-girls-and-protecting-women-post-Jimmy-Saville-metoo

Questions, concerns and comments for Penny Mordant MP Minister of Women & Equalities:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3297184-Your-comments-for-Penny-Mordaunt

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/3297067-Mumsnet-moderation-response-to-yesterdays-feedback

The feminism board is about the concept of critical thinking and thinking about things from a different angle to the one that is dominant in society. That means, sometimes, being challenged or hearing things you don't like.

Not everyone likes that.

Feminists are not necessarily always right. Its important to keep this in mind too. You do not have to agree with every other person.

The point is more about getting people to think in different ways. That can be an uncomfortable experience which forces you to reassess the world you live in from the ground up.

Thats a healthy process in our lives and society. Its true of all politics.

I might telling the cat lot that they can fuck off and shut up because I have allergies.

pennydrew
That was so well said. I like the cut of your jib

I have allergies too, which probably means that these cats are hateful bigots for triggering me.

Threewheeler1 Ha, thanks! Seriously though, at my husband’s work right now, they’re spending a significant sum persuing something that isn’t working & will not work, but it would be demoralising to those who believe in it to stop it. I’m all for kindness when appropriate, but our society is actually being hindered from achieving things including just having a constructive conversation, because we are overly concerned with whether or not we offend. It has to stop.

Justine Robert's Times' interview in April 2018 about the pressures by trans-right's activists on Mumsnet & her commitment to free and civil speech:

'Mumsnet founder Justine Roberts: Transgender activists try to curb free speech on site'
(extract)
The founder of Mumsnet says transgender “thought police” are pressurising advertisers to withdraw from Britain’s most popular parenting website because it allows the discussion of trans topics.

Justine Roberts said she had been approached by three significant advertisers who had been threatened by trans groups.

“Transgender activists have contacted Mumsnet advertisers and said they will be organising a boycott of their products if they don’t remove their advertising from Mumsnet,” Roberts said.

The website had told the advertisers that it “works hard to keep the discussions civil” and was determined to let them continue.

“What’s worrying to me is the thought-police action around speech and the shutting down of the right to be able to disagree and immediately labelling it as transphobic,” Roberts said." (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mumsnet-founder-justine-roberts-transgender-activists-try-to-curb-free-speech-on-site-z3sr3nf6q?shareToken=b2eb62822dd26aecc0f88653978ed23a

MN AIBU response:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3222471-AIBU-to-be-extremely-proud-of-Justine-Roberts-Mumsnet-right-now

Justine Robert's interview about this with Julia Hartley Brewer and India Willoughby:

Kr1stina well put.

I read a Prepper thread once, it was terrifying so I avoid them like the (zombie) plague. Am sure the preppers are lovely but I'm not a prepper therefore I don't read the Prepper section.
Simple

I think if you're raised in a patriarchal society you'll have some very patriarchal views, even if you're a woman. It's hard sometimes when your world view is challenged - which is what a lot of people will find happens when they come on here.

I agree there are lots of important issues beyond self-id that need to be discussed, and I do think that still happens here. This issue may not affect all of us yet but it has the potential to be absolutely devastating for women's rights. This is pretty much the only place women can discuss it openly.

I also remember a post from a couple of months ago showing how traffic to this board in particular had exploded, so we may not be popular with some but there are still huge amounts of people who realise the importance of this board.

pennydrew there's a fine line between being 'not overly concerned you will offend' and downright rude, and I've seen that on these boards.

Yes, we don't want to be all nicey-nicey and complaint but let's not let this be an excuse for ripping other posters to shreds.

It's a fine line to tread, but I for one want to stay on the right side of it. I'll say what I want to, and I don't give a shit if other posters don't think i'm 'nice' but I try not to be excessively rude or harsh. There's always an assertive way to say something, rather than an aggressive way.

I'm just concerned that this 'fuck nice' thing is being taken too far. People can disagree respectfully, in fact I'd say that's the aim of the game (to be able to disagree without it turning nasty) with online boards of this nature.

yes, I think what's so puzzling is that the fact of our existence seems to upset people

I think the preppers are bonkers (and a little worrying)

but I don't think mumsnet should evict them

I don't need to hide the board - i just don't click on the threads

If I went on their threads and said I think they're verging on swivel eyed I wouldn't be surprised or offended when I got my arse handed to me

people seem to do the diametric opposite of the above when it comes to FWR and then get extremely cross when something happens to upset them

baffling

I'm not saying anyone needs to change or be different, either. But it was my explanation of why I think the board attracts more hate than others, as some people seemed to genuinely be wondering why that is. Lots of people are put off by the tone. It doesn't make it wrong. It may explain why there is less engagement by some people who otherwise find it interesting and read a lot.

christ

check the tone on AIBU

it's vicious

For example I once posted about something i'd observed (kids playing, boys doing the traditionally girl things) and one of the posters replied with 'you really don't get it do you'. No attempt to explain what it was I didn't get. No putting forward a different point of view. I'm still not entirely sure what it was that I supposedly 'didn't get'.

Now most posters are not like that but the few that are spoil it for FWR as I think that kind of response is unnecessary and if I was a more easily intimidated person that would probably have been my last post.

LittleMissedTheSunshine All I can say is I’ve been lurking a long time before engaging, and am new, and I haven’t seen the trend on the feminist boards that you speak of. However, the AIBU is frightening and full of pseudo science and finger pointing at other parents, one vegetarian thread is downright nasty- unlike anything I’ve seen here where objections or debates tend to be based in facts.

LittleMissedTheSunshine Re your last comment, again, I’ve been commenting a week and had that happen on two other boards. Really unpleasant comments directed at me while discussing my daughters problems. So I’m not sure if you are active elsewhere, but I think singling out this space as more aggressive than any other on MN is just not based on what’s actually happening.

I'm not singling it out pennydrew. AIBU can be harsh too and I rarely post in there. But two wrongs don't make a right, and I've not seen the 'fuck being nice' sentiment on other boards.
Mumsnet as a whole can be quite harsh as a forum, compared to other forums I've used eg reddit, MSE.
I rarely OP now, as more often than not when I submit an OP I end up regretting it.

If you don't like feminism then just don't go on that discussion page. No reason to stop others from doing so.
There are two very important reasons why there has been a lot of discussion recently about "transgender" issues. One is the current online consultation held by the UK government about introducing gender self-identification. This has been deplorably under-reported in the mainstream media and people need to know about it so that they can take part in the democratic process.
Secondly, we are mothers, and the transgender ideology being pushed in UK schools is a danger to all our children. They are being taught lies, which conflict with science, biology, factual reality and commonsense. Children as young as five are being taught that they can choose their sex, which is a cruel deception. You can't. So-called transsexuals are people who have mutilated their bodies and had surgery to imitate the appearance of the opposite sex but they are eunuchs. They have to take high doses of hormones for the rest of their life, and the surgeries they have are horrific and risky. Many embark on a lifetime of cosmetic surgery to bolster their delusion. (They demand the NHS should pay for it too).
Mothers should all be deeply concerned that their children are being taught this toxic rubbish and set on a path to lifelong self-harm.
Mad people have taken over our schools and media.

The whole of 2018 has been one long trans-fest and it just gets worse.
I am very glad that Mumsnet is providing a place for the majority of normal women (who are NOT man-haters) to discuss these important issues. The pictures below are horrible but people need to see them to understand what all this glib talk about "gender" and "trans" really means. It's no picnic.
Many older people deeply regret it.
Otherwise we will all be pushed around and told what to do, say and think by woman-haters such as Dr Adrian Harrop. He is a horrifying bully.
He has a business website here where people are invited to give feedback on his performance as a doctor, or his suitability for that role.
east-boldon.cylex-uk.co.uk/company/dr-adrian-harrop-limited-24318678.html

NB GoldenWonderwall .Feminists don't believe in assigning gender at birth. Quite the opposite.