LGBT Labour 'Myth Busting' Trans rights re self-id GRA

[R0wantrees]

twitter.com/LGBTLabour/status/1046805475772289024

This was the leaflet given out at the Labour Conference.

The grammar's really bad as well ;

"Trans rights and women's rights fundamentally contradict" (sic)

"Transwomen are just women who've had a different experience to you"

Why not 't a different experience to women"? Because they are only talking to us (actual women). They are mansplaining

Why not to 'different experiences to us? because whoever wrote this is a man

"transwoman want space away from the problems the patriarchy can cause"

Diddums. Like gender stereotyping? Like rape? Like men telling us what we are? Like being patronised? Like taking our words and throwing them back in our faces?

"Transwoman have always been allowed to stand on on All-Women shortlists"

That's all right then. Didn't actually know that. Thanks fro the heads up. Will not vote Labour again while they persist in such dishonesty

I am rather tickled by 'transwomen are women with a different experience to you'

Nope. Nuns are women with a different experience to me. Female Russian shot-put throwers are women with a different experience to me. Teresa May is a woman with a different experience to me.

There's a fundamental flaw in your sentence there, fellas. Transwomen's experiences are different from mine like anyone else's, but that does not magically turn males into females.

Yep

Kate Moss is a woman with different experiences from me

Olga Korbut is a woman with differnt experiences from me

My mum's a woman with different experiences from me

That bullshit has just made me want to cry with anger.

I left the Labour party as soon as this self-identity bullshit reared it's ugly head.

The more I read, the more I despair.

Does anyone know exactly what the Ireland self-ID laws do and do not cover? They are always used as an example to show fears are unfounded, but I know that in Ireland, prisons at least are still sex segregated not gender segregated. Is that the only difference? Are the Irish gender laws identical to the proposed uk gender laws in every other respect?

'We believe no minority group should have to debate their right to exist in a free and equal society which treats them fairly'.

Well said. No one would want this minority group to not exist. Trans people have every right to exist. They have a right to be treated fairly.

But.

I believe that a majority group (discriminated against globally through history) should not be prevented from debating their right to exist - to assert who they are, and who they aren't - in a fair and equal society which treats them fairly.

It's the 21st century and women still do not have that 'fair and equal society'.

Criminals are already abusing the system. The evidence is that procedures- particularly relating to prisoners - need to be made more rigourous, not 'simplified'.

Anyone who claims there's no evidence either hasn't read the news recently.

Forgot the or... or doesn't give a shit about female prisoners.

Errol

They always talk about people not wanting them to exist, or not believing they exist, or not having the right to exist.

Transpeople exist, they have the right to exist. They have the right to wear what they want, love whom they want, believe what they want about themselves

They do not have the right to foist their belief on me. And yes,; they do not have the right to deny me my existance as an actual, biological women

None of this would be a problem if Stonewall et al had not claimed Transwomen ARE women

That was an aggressive lie

Petition launched by Jonny Best, Julie Bindel etc
'Please join us in asking Stonewall to reconsider its transgender policies and approach'
Since 2015, Stonewall has also campaigned on trans issues. We believe the organisation has made mistakes in its approach. These mistakes are undermining women’s sex-based rights and protections, and damaging the relationship between transsexual people and women - a relationship which had been positive for many years.

On Oct 19th the Government’s public consultation on proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act closes, so it is important that there should be debates amongst us all about transgender politics and the rights of women and girls. Stonewall disagrees and calls debate on this matter of public policy transphobic.

Stonewall’s promotion of the concept of 'gender identity’, which has it that a man or woman is anyone (of either sex) who identifies as such, is also undermining the basis of lesbian, gay and bisexual identities as orientated around same-sex attraction. Lesbians in particular are coming under pressure to accept male-bodied trans women into their spaces and as sexual partners.

At the moment, Stonewall is failing in three key ways:

By uncritically adopting a form of transgender politics which undermines the sex-based rights of women and the concept of homosexuality itself
By refusing to recognise the diversity of viewpoints on these issues, including among LGBT people.
By seeking to prevent public debate of these issues by branding as transphobic anyone who questions Stonewall’s current trans policies.
We call on Stonewall to:

Acknowledge that there are a range of valid viewpoints around sex, gender and transgender politics
Acknowledge specifically the conflict that exists between transgenderism and sex-based women’s rights
Commit to fostering an atmosphere of respectful debate, rather than demonising as transphobic those who wish to discuss or dissent from Stonewall’s current policies"
www.ipetitions.com/petition/dear-stonewall-please-reconsider-your-approach

[[www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3384045-Petition-to-Stonewall]]

Apologies for breaking the link above

thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3384045-Petition-to-Stonewall

Labour can suck my balls. My lady balls.

Chrysanthemums
In case we miss it in further posts, I think you've just made a huge point here in terms of who's 'telling' us this stuff:

You highlighted the sentence:
Transwomen are just women who've had a different experience to you

Why doesnt' this say " a different experience to other women" rather than "other people/us"? Clue: Because they are only talking to 'us' = actual women who disagree, from an 'other' point of view.

They are mansplaining.

Whoever wrote this was a man.

And that's not even picking up the words 'bathrooms' and 'bills'. Is this person from the US?

Labour - you've already lost me, but with this you've demonstrated you don't even know me as a UK woman you're trying to convince.

Why doesn't this say "a different experience to other women" or* "other people" or "us"

Instead of "a different experience to you "

I also notice the first two points ask a question about trans people, but then only answer it talking about trans women. As if trans men are don't exist or don't matter because they are women

Remember, everyone. Transmen are the ultimate afterthought in this Anti-Woman movement. They are never the battlecry, that is always 'Transwomen are women'.

Because, quite simply, transmen are not a useful wedge to remove women's rights.

Spectator lead article by James Kirkup concludes:

"All raise serious issues of public policy, yet politicians are silent, fearful of questioning the trans-rights advocates and the consequences of their orthodoxy. Sometimes with good reason, too. Those MPs, mostly women, who have tried to debate this issue have been showered with online hatred. I’ve stopped counting the politicians, cabinet ministers among them, who tell me privately they worry about the trans agenda but won’t say so publicly

That silence troubles me. I am no social conservative, no culture warrior defending ‘traditional’ values. My interest here is fear of political failure, of what happens when sensible politicians fail to do their job by weighing evidence and reconciling conflicting interests. The failure leaves the trans debate dominated by shrill and aggressive groups intent on eliminating inconvenient evidence and dissenting views.

Failing to debate trans issues on the facts also creates the conditions for deliberate and harmful populism. Rows about trans people in bathrooms are a staple of America’s culture wars. The current vacuum of leadership on the issue means Britain could easily go the same way, if a politician on the make decided to make trouble. That would benefit no one, least of all transgender people, who deserve to live their lives with the same ordinary dignity as anyone else.

That’s not all that’s at stake. Trans-genderism is the perfect ideology for the on-demand internet age. It gives unquestioned primacy to ‘lived experience’, elevates emotion above evidence and convicts — after instant trial by social media — any scrutiny or doubt of that most heinous contemporary crime, intolerance. It chills debate and stifles critical thinking.

Should policies and laws be made on the basis of facts and evidence, or feelings and demands? You might not think so today, but the way our political system responds to the transgender rights movement will matter to everyone."

www.spectator.co.uk/2018/10/trans-rights-have-gone-wrong/

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3384307-James-Kirkup-Spectator-lead-article-Trans-rights-have-gone-wrong-The-new-gender-orthodoxy-allows-no-room-for-dissent