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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Dear Transactivists

87 replies

Estellesylvia · 29/09/2018 06:17

This is a message, not to trans people, but to the transactivists who are doing everything in their power to silence women.

To the woman hating men who hide their loathing of women behind transactivism, and who cannot bear to hear us speak up and defy them. To the Serena Joys, the women who join these men in fighting to undo the gains that women have made in the past one hundred years. You are traitors to your sex.

In a week where a billboard stating the definition of woman has been removed for containing hate speech, and a women’s rights group have been stopped by a local council from gathering to meet, I want to send a clear message to the transactivists who are so desperate to silence us and who I know read Mumsnet. And I know I speak on behalf of many thousands of women, in ever growing numbers.

You will NEVER silence us.

You can ban us, from here, from social media. We will create new accounts. You can bully venues into cancelling our meetings. We will meet in each other’s living rooms, in parks, in the street if we have to. You can take our posters and billboards down. We will put up a hundred more in their place, every time.

And every time you try to silence us, you draw more attention to our cause, and we are joined by many more women, and men, who see your hatred and misogyny, and speak out against it.

We know you have the media and politicians and money and power on your side, and we are ordinary women, organising at grass roots, on a shoe string.

But you will never, ever silence us. No matter how hard you try. We will never stop fighting and the more you try to stop us, the more determined we become. We’re the great granddaughters of the suffragettes.

I have no doubt this post may be removed, as women are no longer allowed to stand up to bullies on Mumsnet. Even so, the sentiment will remain.

You will NEVER stop us.

OP posts:
tsonlyme · 29/09/2018 06:19

Fair do’s and I agree with youbur I s dont think they get up until lunchtime 😂

Estellesylvia · 29/09/2018 06:46

You’re probably right!!

OP posts:
YeTalkShiteHen · 29/09/2018 06:50

Well said!

tsonlyme · 29/09/2018 06:52

Gawd, terrible typos, apologies.

Onatreebyariver · 29/09/2018 06:53

YES 100x over. Well said.

YouCantTourniquetTheTaint · 29/09/2018 06:55

This x 1000

WatchOutForTheCar · 29/09/2018 07:04

👏🏻

WatchOutForTheCar · 29/09/2018 07:04

That was meant to be applause!

SilverBirchTree · 29/09/2018 07:06

Hi Estelle,

I wouldn't call myself an active trans activist, but I support trans people. I do call myself a feminist and have been an activist and a pro bono lawyer for feminist causes.

I acknowledge a trans woman as a fellow woman. I support their place in society, their right to medical care, their right to express their true selves, their right to the protection of the law and I believe them to be as worthy of acceptance and respect as any other person.

I have no desire to silence you, but when I see people posting views I find bigoted, ignorant, damaging, then I will respond. I believe you will find yourselves on the wrong side of history, like every other time people have felt the need to exclude and demonise a minority group.

You will not silence me either.

To any trans people reading this, please know you are valuable, worthy of equal rights, love and respect. That many people support you and wish you strength in the face of ugly comments like the ones too often posted on mumsnet these days.

HandsOffMyRights · 29/09/2018 07:08

Unlike the TDAs (loving the trans demanding activists) I hear you!

Estellesylvia · 29/09/2018 07:10

I completely echo your sentiments in your last paragraph SilverBirch. Trans people are absolutely worthy of value, love and respect. I am sure everyone here agrees.

And I would not try to silence you, because I believe passionately in free speech and honest, open debate.

OP posts:
IAMcorbyndallas · 29/09/2018 07:11

So, SilverBirchtree. What rights don't transwomen have?

kalinkafoxtrot45 · 29/09/2018 07:12

Trans people are indeed worthy of equal rights, love and respect. What they are not entitled to is gaining rights at the expense of born women. Trans women may wish to resemble women but they are not women. And they know it. Born women and trans people alike are endangered by the activities of TRAs.

RepealtheGRA · 29/09/2018 07:12

Hear, hear OP you can ban us from twitter, take down posters, try and enforce pronouns on here.

But you will NEVER silence us. You have no jurisdiction in my hairdressers, my beauticians, my NCT meet up, my local ball pit, my local pub! My home, my knitting group, my book group, I can put stickers and leaflets in every toilet I visit. And actually even though it’s not the same for everyone you have no jurisdiction in MY workplace and never will.

Every time you try and silence me or another woman I speak up again, I send another, I tell another person.

Corbby1 · 29/09/2018 07:12

YES @SilverBirchTree, totally with you x

DriftingLeaves · 29/09/2018 07:13

Yup. They hate us because we are everything they can never be and we do it better. Their childish tantrums are no longer amusing.

ChrysanthemumsAreMums · 29/09/2018 07:13

I acknowledge a trans woman as a fellow woman. I support their place in society, their right to medical care, their right to express their true selves, their right to the protection of the law and I believe them to be as worthy of acceptance and respect as any other person

Silver. Agree. I'd just substitute people for women

I believe people are worthy of love, respect and the ability to express themselves and believe what they want to about themselves

Can you tell me what rights they currently do not possess, as people?

Because from my POV the only right they believe they lack is the right to make everyone else believe what they believe about themselves, and to make the law reflect that.

KatVonGulag · 29/09/2018 07:14

I think the issue is with the trans umbrella and self I.D.

There is no way I'm ever giving love and support to the David Challenor, the Karen whites, and the Marie Deans of this world. Or the Jess Bradleys.

Transwomen should get a GRC

Safeguarding matters.

And with all these voices that won't be silenced it's going to be a heck of a noise.

ChrysanthemumsAreMums · 29/09/2018 07:15

Gender reassignment is a protected characteristic, under the law

Biological sex, is a protected characteristic

People saying they are something because they feel like it, is NOT

ChrysanthemumsAreMums · 29/09/2018 07:19

Yes. Self Id is the problem

FloraHiggins · 29/09/2018 07:21

I support their place in society, their right to medical care, their right to express their true selves, their right to the protection of the law and I believe them to be as worthy of acceptance and respect as any other person.

I support all of this too but don’t see why that means women have to cede their rights to achieve it. I can support the above whilst also acknowledging that trans women are not women.

ChrysanthemumsAreMums · 29/09/2018 07:23

Some TRAs seem to have already gained the privilege to be lauded unquestioningly, and given positions of power that do not reflect their age, experience or qualification to understand Safeguarding, women or children. I think we all can think of examples here

lydiamajora · 29/09/2018 07:25

If you accept transwomen as women, then perhaps you can give us a definition of the word "woman". Actually, I've typed all this out before, time for some copypasta:

The only reason you can understand the ideas I am trying to communicate to you right now is because we both speak using words which have an agreed upon meaning. Words are important because without them we have no way of putting the ideas we have into the brains of others. Humans don't have psychic powers.

So, when you say "trans women are women", we need to hammer out what the word "woman" signifies, because clearly there is some disagreement. And "trans", for that matter, though I can see at least one poster here has taken a stab at that one. I've seen a couple attempted definitions of woman, so I'll outline them really briefly and my issues with them:

  1. A woman is anyone who identifies as a woman. This one is a non-answer, frankly. If I said I identified as a gleepglorp, and you said "WTF is a gleepglorp?" and I responded with "Anyone who says they are a gleepglorp", I have told you nothing. How does one determine if they identify as a woman? What are the qualifications? What distinguishing characteristic/s do women have that men do not?

2) A woman is someone who identifies with the social role of women in society. Well, that means basically all feminists are right out. I'm a feminist precisely because I think that the social role of women has historically been, and continues to be in many repects, shit. To say that womanhood is about agreement with gendered restrictions is something I find incredibly frustrating.

Not incidentally, female human beings have fought for their rights and had those rights enshrined into law using the word "woman". If we as a society decide that the word now has a different meaning than it did when those laws were passed, that has an impact on female people. We aren't objecting to changing definitions because we like being assholes to people who are different, we're doing it because it has real consequences for us.

blorgzorb · 29/09/2018 07:29

❤️

Truckingonandon · 29/09/2018 07:29

Well fucking said Lydia.