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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Dear Transactivists

87 replies

Estellesylvia · 29/09/2018 06:17

This is a message, not to trans people, but to the transactivists who are doing everything in their power to silence women.

To the woman hating men who hide their loathing of women behind transactivism, and who cannot bear to hear us speak up and defy them. To the Serena Joys, the women who join these men in fighting to undo the gains that women have made in the past one hundred years. You are traitors to your sex.

In a week where a billboard stating the definition of woman has been removed for containing hate speech, and a women’s rights group have been stopped by a local council from gathering to meet, I want to send a clear message to the transactivists who are so desperate to silence us and who I know read Mumsnet. And I know I speak on behalf of many thousands of women, in ever growing numbers.

You will NEVER silence us.

You can ban us, from here, from social media. We will create new accounts. You can bully venues into cancelling our meetings. We will meet in each other’s living rooms, in parks, in the street if we have to. You can take our posters and billboards down. We will put up a hundred more in their place, every time.

And every time you try to silence us, you draw more attention to our cause, and we are joined by many more women, and men, who see your hatred and misogyny, and speak out against it.

We know you have the media and politicians and money and power on your side, and we are ordinary women, organising at grass roots, on a shoe string.

But you will never, ever silence us. No matter how hard you try. We will never stop fighting and the more you try to stop us, the more determined we become. We’re the great granddaughters of the suffragettes.

I have no doubt this post may be removed, as women are no longer allowed to stand up to bullies on Mumsnet. Even so, the sentiment will remain.

You will NEVER stop us.

OP posts:
ShotsFired · 29/09/2018 10:38

It really is tiresome when people are so rude they can't even be arsed to read the actual words before they leap in with their ready made denunciations and suggestions of phobia and bigotry.

It shows them to be nothing more than ill mannered and overbearing.

TheCraicDealer · 29/09/2018 11:19

I believe you will find yourselves on the wrong side of history, like every other time people have felt the need to exclude and demonise a minority group.

I keep seeing this being trotted out on twitter. I can only imagine that this argument tries to appeal to our perceived desire to be "right" and progressive, and conflate the campaigns for women's and gay rights with Transrights. They are nothing alike. There was nothing within the aims of those early campaigns that impinged on the rights and safety of other groups.

Compare and contrast that with the impact on women and girls who can no longer rely on single sex youth groups, school changing rooms, shelters and prisons, notwithstanding the real danger to young people that encouraging them down a medicalised irreversible path with little or no gatekeeping will do. Stap it.

Hyppolyta · 29/09/2018 11:27

The one thing I would like to know, if silverbirch or anyone else can answer, is why males who feel they are women have a right to refuse to share spaces with males.

But females who also dont want to share with males are called bigots, and worse.

If males having gendered spaces is a basic human right, why do you feel having sex segregated spaces is not also a human right?

MsMcWoodle · 29/09/2018 11:28

My message to transactivists is that I have nothing but contempt for you.
I'm not talking about people who genuinely have gender dysphoria and don't want to be persecuted. I support them.
I'm talking about the many tras who are gleefully trying to dismantle women's rights, we know who I mean.
To them I say, the direction is one way. When people see what you are doing they can't unsee it.
The one thing I do love about you guys is the way you constantly show us who you are.
Keep it up.

Elephantinacravat · 29/09/2018 11:32

No one came back to lay out what rights trans people don't currently have then?

OvaHere · 29/09/2018 11:41

The one thing I would like to know, if silverbirch or anyone else can answer, is why males who feel they are women have a right to refuse to share spaces with males.

Yes. Male women are the only type of women who are allowed to say no to males. Funny that! Anyone would think it's males making the rules up.

Elephantinacravat · 29/09/2018 11:46

The one thing I would like to know, if silverbirch or anyone else can answer, is why males who feel they are women have a right to refuse to share spaces with males.

Ha! In all my time on this topic, I have never even thought of it worded in that way!

MsMcWoodle · 29/09/2018 11:48

The one thing I would like to know, if silverbirch or anyone else can answer, is why males who feel they are women have a right to refuse to share spaces with males.
Yes - when apparently women don't have that right!

tobee · 29/09/2018 11:53

Always worth re posting

Dear Transactivists
seafret · 29/09/2018 12:01

And AWAS and Trans extremists; at the end of the day, no matter what tactics you use... WE WILL STILL BE THE WOMEN, THE ADULT HUMAN FEMALES

Your annihilation tendencies are not a long term strength, but your absolute and fundamental weakness. YOUR WEAKNESS. We see it.

To anyone else caught up in the distress and confusion of gender or mental ill-health, I encourage you to show WOMEN with your words and actions the compassion that you wish us to show you. By respecting us, not forcing us. You may still not get exactly what you want, but you have no right to take it anyway.

You can choose not to be yet another abuser of women. Above all else, you can choose to be a good, kind, fair, thoughtful, balanced, ethical, respectful, responsible SAFE human being, and to look in the mirror and see that.

scotsheather · 29/09/2018 12:12

Great message, if only those activists read it.

We've seen the effects of silencing women. metoo, Saville, presidents club. Just saying Wink

AngryAttackKittens · 29/09/2018 12:18

In an odd way I suppose we should thank them for pushing so many women towards feminism by their sheer pisstaking overreach. At a certain point even the "nicest" woman has had enough.

wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 29/09/2018 12:35

Amen OP.

As a previous poster said, we are the women. The old fashioned cunty type. And you hate it.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 29/09/2018 13:00

‘You won’t silence me’ SilverBirch not been back to apologise then?

How rude

How predictable

ICantBelieveIDidThis · 29/09/2018 13:07

Thanks, lydiamajora, you've given me an idea for another name change....Grin

Estellesylvia · 29/09/2018 21:27

Bernard they rarely come back. They plop on a thread to say TWAW and how we are all mean yes but never stay to engage, because they can’t.

OP posts:
redexpat · 29/09/2018 21:42

Here's my question. Since the argument for allowing self id trans people into womens spaces seems to be based on the need for protection, why aren't tra campaigning against toxic masculinity and gender based violence?

Estellesylvia · 29/09/2018 21:44

Transactivists will not campaign against these things because they are only interested in bullying women. We have been easy targets until now, with our female socialisation to be nice.

Not any more.

OP posts:
heresyandwitchcraft · 29/09/2018 22:17

I think it's more complicated than that, because they want absolute validation of their claims.
The trans activist idea: "I am what I say I am because I say so," only works if everyone else agrees. So they have to continually seek external things to verify their internal identity, including documentation and legislation to back it up.
Somewhere inside, the activists know this is all built on a house of cards which is only kept up by others acquiescing.
The "old-school transsexuals" are far better adjusted because their whole definitions are grounded in actual definitions ("I am a person definitively of one sex with intractable gender dysphoria who has had to modify my body in order for it to conform better to my own internal sense of self as a person of the opposite sex, and all I want to do is live a quiet life", versus "I am literally the same as the opposite sex and always have been so stop talking about your transphobic reproductive biology or same-sex orientation").
I genuinely think that it's the continual cognitive dissonance of these activists, insisting they are the same as females, but knowing that females are actually a different biological category, that drives this. It's an impossible fiction they are trying to attain, which causes anger and makes them specifically vulnerable to female dissent. And our very existence as females continually reminds them of this.
I've read on trans forums that it's actually better when trans people accept the basic impossibility of becoming the opposite sex.
So again.
Trans people are trans.
Trans people are worthy of courtesy, respect, all human rights, specialist services and support to flourish.
BUT
We don't have a time-machine. We can't change biological sex. We won't dismiss safeguarding concerns. We won't accept abusive behaviour and silencing. We can't re-define material reality. We won't ignore facts. We won't make the dictionary nonsensical. We won't be stopped from calmly speaking about things that are important to us. We will defend females and free speech.
Get over it.

Feefleur · 29/09/2018 22:34

I think Lydia it is the point of being assholes to those that are different and there are plenty on this site that are assholes to those that are different

heresyandwitchcraft · 29/09/2018 22:41

Fee. Your post makes little sense. Explain your position. Would you include trans activists being decidedly awful to women in that? Because if you don't know about that side of this whole situation, then you have no idea why the OP has written the post.
terfisaslur.com/
That's a good place to start.

littlbrowndog · 29/09/2018 22:47

Mrs beaujangles 👏

Feefleur · 29/09/2018 22:47

Yes let's get over it. There is a level of underlying hatred and bigotry that exists on this site that is utterly disturbing. There are people who are trans. They do not choose this so can we not share some love and support for one another as opposed to the hatred that currently exists.
We should be working together not fighting each other.
On another point I am aware of references to so called TRAs. Would someone be able to name these people please?

RedDogsBeg · 29/09/2018 22:56

I don't think Feefluer understood lydia's post at all.

LangCleg · 29/09/2018 22:57

Apropos of nothing: British swearing is superior to American swearing, I feel.

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