2 reasons why I couldn’t peaktrans my sister

[Destinysdaughter]

I had a chat with my older sister last week about the issues we discuss on here on a daily basis. It was much harder than I imagined it would be. She’s a woman in her 50s, ex teacher and v rational. The 2 stumbling blocks, that I struggled to refute were, her argument that, if it’s such a big deal as I was making it out to be, why wasn’t it being reported in The Guardian, the BBC, R4, Women’s Hour etc ( the main places where she gets her news information).

The other sticking point was her assumption that trans women were men who had had a sex change operation, AKA old school transsexuals. She was perfectly ok with them being regarded as women. However she just couldn’t believe that men who are actually what would have been considered transvestites were now claiming to be women. It really brought it home to me what we are up against when I think a majority of the unsuspecting public may well think like this.

Just wanted to share this and would appreciate any advice in countering these arguments?

Send her some articles from The Times and Spectator re Karen White. That’ll do it.

It’s because the truth is so outlandish and bizarre, people who haven’t been immersed in this and / or experienced it first hand are incredulous.

FPFW and TGT are my websites of choice for showing the truth of the matter.

Sometimes, the only way is to actually go on twitter, or wherever and see it for yourself. The abuse, the utter madness of a transcult.

Personally, it didn't take much for me. I'm a natural radical feminist, and all it took was the lady-penis and Caitlynn Jenner getting WOman of the Year.

Maybe there are some people who will never get it. Until it's too late that is.

Don't forget, some women worked against the Suffragettes.

Maybe the article (was it Andrew Gilligan or James Kirkup?) where they discussed the BBC trying to disprove that 40+% of trans prisoners are sex offenders and how they made a complete hash of it, discovered that it was more like 48% and then tried to pretend it wasn't true.

Also maybe the fact that they wouldn't cover the David Challenor case for ages and even then only v briefly? (Both Guardian and BBC). And with the BBC, why when MNers complained, they were told it wasn't a big story or some bollocks - and compare it to the other abuse story in Coventry that week that was on the BBC straight away?

As LemonJello says, Karen White and the article which talks about "her penis" when KW was in the female prison. Jess Bradley and getting "her" penis out in public/at work.

Someone at work told me to watch orange is the new black re trans issues, buzzfeed got a mention, lesbians need to be open about loving anyone, children can understand people wanting to be a different gender.... it's going to be a long hard slog

Ask her to fill in the self ID consultation. The way the questions are phrased show she is mistaken.

www.gov.uk/government/consultations/reform-of-the-gender-recognition-act-2004

tinyurl.com/SelfIDconsult
(tiny URL Self ID consult)

Thanks for your comments. Yes she's not on Twitter where much of this takes place. I just couldn't answer tho, WHY the BBC or the Guardian weren't reporting on it. I told her pp on here have been tearing their hair our and contacting them desperately about things like the Aimee Chandellor scandal, but I felt like such a conspiracy theorist as yes, it is really outrageous but yes it is happening!

Not sure what TGT is, tho I did direct her to FPFW and the GRA consultation guidelines.

It has been reported on R4 she's just missed it.

Nic Williams of Fair Play For Women was recently on the BBC PM Programme talking about the Karen White case.

Helen Watts was on BBC World at One yesterday talking about the issues at Guides

The Guardian covered the schools packs and Gaby H went to a WPUK meeting and wrote about it.

There has been coverage in The Economist (online series you can send a link), The Spectator, The New Statesman, The Sun, The Morning Star, The Times & Sunday Times etc.

The Economist is a good one to send a link to - Kristina Harrison's piece and/or Kathleen Stock

To tackle the first one, there's the scandalous article published by The Observer where they missed out all of the relevant information from an article about a trans prisoner:

www.newstatesman.com/politics/feminism/2018/01/marie-dean-story-shows-there-s-no-simple-answer-how-we-treat-transgender

There's some great stuff in the Spectator but from your original post I would imagine just mentioning the name of that publication will have her scrabbling for a bible and a crucifix.

There was also a piece in the Spectator about lack of BBC coverage, and a buzzfeed piece ages ago about internal tussles.

Other good articles to highlight silencing:

• Janice Turner article in the Times on accusations of hatespeech
• Durham student sacked for retweeeting an article saying women don't have penises (Times)
• Gulag Goldsmiths utter craziness - The Telegraph article on this was utterly hilarious.

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/there-no-legal-bars-woman-10297113

the Philip Bunce thing this week? City banker who wears a wig and dress to work for half the time, has been named one of the uk’s top 100 females in business

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6195853/Credit-Suisse-boss-dresses-woman-slammed-appearing-100-women-list.html

msybe try Magdalen Berns’s youtube film on Alex Drummond? He is a beardy man who feels he’s ‘expanding the bandwidth’ of womanhood.

Danielle Muscato?

She won't believe something until its covered by her favourite news sources?

Did your sister miss the Guardian's report on a Minister's urgent enquiry into why so many teenage girls were intent on mutilating their bodies, sterlization and life long drug dependency, to become pale imitations of men? Perhaps, she didn't see the problem that society was storing up for the future.

People respond to different aspects of the phenomenon of transgenderism. Give it time.

I was the same about the BBC until I was researching a story they were not covering.
It was eye-opening but I think in my case I had to find it out myself.

And regarding trans issues tbh i knew only of Jan Morris and April Ashley, genuinely brave people imo who had been on a very long and difficult road in life.
I was introduced to some of the implications of Self ID by Mumsnet. So thanks for that. I mentioned to family members some of what was going on in prisons and they were incredulous. My DH said of one situation near us "well the prison services will knock that on the head.!" Er no, self ID IS being accommodated.

These might help.

Maybe change tack and say look don't you think they should be reporting the David Challenor case? And if other news outlets are, why weren't the BBC? How can you justify it not being considered news? And then discuss the trans angle and the high % of BBC employees that are considered to be trans.

Also the wide-reaching Stonewall umbrella.

Maybe tell her about the article where James Kirkup (?) said members of the cabinet had told him they were too scared to talk about the topic.

Do they still say 'pre-op' even though most will never have the 'op' anyway? It kind of suggests they are on a waiting list rather than have no intention of going through it.

There is a very good introductory thread. I don't do links, but I will see if I can find the title

It's called Frequently Asked Questions I have noticed here. Currently on p2 of Feminist Chat. She may need

Sorry, I don't have a share token for this, but in order to answer the question "why aren't Women's Hour covering it?" you need to start with Jenni Murray's Sunday Times piece here: www.thetimes.co.uk/article/be-trans-be-proud-but-dont-call-yourself-a-real-woman-frtld7q5c

Then show her the tons of abuse she got for it. Then if you can find the stat, add the massive overrepresentation of trans employees at the BBC (have they also been advised by Mermaids etc?).

Had a similar conversation yesterday with a male colleague who was very confident that transwomen had had all the surgery and were on hormone tablets. Didn’t have any kind of a clue about self-ID, but was quite horrified at the thought once it was presented to him, and the potential impact on his primary and secondary school aged daughters.

I just had a conversation with my (male) colleagues about Bunce. I couldn't believe they did not get it... Or rather they were logically extrapolating from the things they vaguely think are right about gender and inclusivity and concluding that it must be right to treat pretend to see him as a a woman

I had a similar story with my sister. I think most people think you MUST be making it up it's so bizarre. What really helped my sister was this video from Rose of Dawn. If she's a proper leftist it might jar her a bit

It's still quite a good opener and it's by a transsexual so you can't just ignore what she has to say.

The thing that did it for her was the cotton ceiling thing. Show her some Rapey J Penis videos maybe? Worked for my sister.

Good luck

on 2 - show her Pips Bunce, Danielle Muscato, Alex Drummond.

Remind her that transvestites are men who dress for sexual kicks, not people with gender dysphoria. Ask what business the law has making it easier for men to indulge their fetishes at women's expense.

It sounds like she's stuck in genuinely wanting to be nice and kind. Use that socialisation against her, challenge it.

"I know it sounds unbelievable, and I know you want to be kind - I love that about you. Are you suggesting that I'm lying, or just stupid? Are you saying that the women who have been assaulted & threatened (Maria Maclachlan, female inmates, Venice etc) are lying - just because you haven't personally seen it on telly yet? No? Well maybe give their stories more of a hearing than what the BBC will allow." Follow with links.