Girlguiding expels leaders who question trans policy

[AgnesBadenPowell]

Well, I guess I knew this was coming. Dissent will not be tolerated. Forget the safety concerns, the privacy and dignity issues, the managing out of gender non-confirming girls. What's really serious is one leader referring to another leader "a nightmare" in a private conversation.

Girl Guide leaders expelled for questioning trans policy

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/34139ed0-bea5-11e8-8d21-451ec1df6b83

Two Guide leaders who had raised safeguarding concerns about the organisation’s transgender policy have been expelled and had their units closed down.

Dozens of children face disappointment because there is no one else to run the units. The expelled leaders say they will take legal action against Girlguiding if their removals are upheld.

Helen Watts, one of 12 leaders who signed a letter to The Sunday Times in April asking for a review of the policy, was told on Friday that her membership was being terminated after more than 15 years with the Guides.

At least one other signatory, based in the northwest of England, was expelled. Documents seen by The Sunday Times suggest disciplinary investigations have been launched against at least five Guide leaders.

[Edited by MNHQ to remove copyright materiel]

TELI were co-founded by Jess Bradley to use the law to advance the trans lobby/Stonewall men's rights agenda. There's a thread on them somewhere.

Headline: ROUGH GUIDE Girl Guide leaders booted out and groups closed down after transgender toilet row - rubbish

Article: The policy says that leaders are not allowed to tell girls or their parents if a girl or leader in their unit used to identify as male - very good

Article: They believed that parents have a right to know if their daughter is sharing bathrooms and bedrooms with someone who has "the physical body of a boy" - very good

Who is teli?

Trans Equality legal Initiative.
co founded by Jess Bradley, Tara Hewitt, Michelle Hudson and likely others.

There should probably be a thread about TELI and its influence etc

"The Trans Equality Legal Initiative works to build a collective and strategic response to the widespread and entrenched discrimination and inequality experienced by members of the trans community. The founders came together with this aim after the Government released the 'Transgender Equality Inquiry'. This was the first Government Inquiry into the discrimination and abuse suffered by members of the trans community in the UK. The report outlined the systemic discrimination faced by this community in almost every aspect of their private and public lives.

Through TELI, we hope to bring together human rights lawyers, third sector trans activist organisations, academics, equality and diversity experts and members of the trans, non-binary and queer community to pool our knowledge, expertise and skill base to inform both strategic litigation and to assist in lobbying for clear and concrete measures to secure equality and safety for members of the trans community. We also hope to consolidate expertise in this area of law to help inform practitioners and activists.

Strategic litigation is often a tool of last resort but can, when used appropriately, effect real change in how the Government responds and addresses wide scale discrimination. The founders recognise from their own practices that it is only through working cohesively and strategically from both a policy and legal standpoint that real and substantive change is made. The founders are committed to realising this change."
www.teli.org.uk/our-vision/

Yes, I too understand where SG is coming from in her position.
It doesn't in any way make her right. Or a useful spokesperson on safeguarding.

Exactly.

Thanks Rowan. Didn't realise there wasn't a thread.

Could we complain to the bbc on the suicide stats point?

I don't see why not.

www.samaritans.org/sites/default/files/kcfinder/files/press/Samaritans%20Media%20Guidelines%202013%20UK.pdf

Agnes, I think the answer to Suzie Green and her supporters is that GG policy is to the detriment of a larger number of trans children than it benefits. Transgender trend says the Tavistock saw 2016 children in 2016/17 (hope that isn’t a typo) of those 70 % were girls who, if they all were Guides would have to managed out. So the change of the whole single sex organisation to single gender benefits at the very very most, 604 trans girls per annum at the expense of a potential 1411 trans boys per annum and thousands of girls.

TELI were co-founded by Jess Bradley

I am sure starting to wonder, if there are any 'trans advisory groups' - you know, the ones that advice governments, schools and organizations (like Girl Guiding) - that are not predominantly influenced by paraphiliacs.

I realise not every child who thinks they are trans will go to the Tavistock, but I can’t think that the proportion of those who don’t get there should be any different.

The sticking point, over and over again, is TWAW. Trans girls are girls.

The answer has to be repeated, firmly, over and over, No, they are not. Transwomen are men who identify as women, and transgirls are boys who identify as girls. And that's fine. That can be respected absolutely in terms of dress, naming, social preferences and all the rest of it.

But we cannot sympathise their biology away, or respect it away, or pretend it away in situations where biological sex matters and it negatively affects biological girls and women. That is a hard line. In those situations, separate provision needs to be made via third spaces.

This is not something many women are ever going to believe or agree with, and believing and accepting it cannot be compelled.

twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=%40BBCWorldatOne%20%20

Stephen Whittle is throwing a bit of a wobbly at the world at one

The sticking point, over and over again, is TWAW. Trans girls are girls.

I like the discussion on the AIBU thread on this with one poster saying that a 14 year old boy and a transgirl were completely different entities and a teenaged girl could share with the latter with no problem but the former could be problematic.

This was after other posters had explained, till they were blue in the face, that there was no difference between a 14 year old boy and a 14 year old transgirl beyond the "trans" prefix and maybe some gendered clothing.

As others have said, it's pretty much a religious belief.

Can someone with a Twitter thread please remind whittle that his answer to potential pregnanacy and sexual abuse of young girls was to say the Guiders just needed to provide condoms?

Am I remembering correctly that on a thread on here Whittle rather creepily referred to their sexual adventures as a guide?

"it's pretty much a religious belief."

Yes, it's an unbridgeable chasm, akin to that between faith and rationality. It's like a paleontologist trying to have a debate with a Young Earth Creationist. Empiricism vs revelation.

Whittle is a proud queen’s guide who lost his virginity to a Boy Scout at guide camp. He just wants all the girls to be able to experience such a moment, including the ones with penises. The leaders should lurk with condoms and let it all happen.the thread is on here. I think the testosterone has gone to his brain.

Ah, so I had remembered that grubby intervention by Whittle correctly. Thinking back to other stuff they've posted here, and to the way they carry on on twitter, my heart sinks whenever I see organisations deferring to their "expertise" in this area.

Whittle seems a tad confused - maybe the anger apparent from the comments being post on twitter is clouding their judgement - but no recognition that they would have been managed out with the trans "inclusive" policy guides have adopted now. Seems Whittle is happy with trans exclusion so long as those concerned are born female.

Whittle is a bit of a twittle isn't he.

Stephen Whittle is throwing a bit of a wobbly at the world at one Does anyone know why? Susie Green CEO Mermaids was on.

Yes, it's an unbridgeable chasm, akin to that between faith and rationality. It's like a paleontologist trying to have a debate with a Young Earth Creationist. Empiricism vs revelation. The historic response to this has often been a schism. Separation on grounds of irreconcilable doctrinal difference. Third spaces.

it's pretty much a religious belief and not yet in the Promise but it's only a matter of time.

Poor transgender girls, if there are people like you lot around!

Poor girls and transgender children if there are people like you around.

Helen must be hitting a few nerves - the troops are being corralled & complaints being fired in as we speak. Whittle is even calling Helen a bigot. Helen is a decent, caring, concerned leader who has the girls in her care at the heart of her stance. Why does whittle and all the other "experts in the field" have a problem with safeguarding for children as young as 5, and informed parental consent for entrusting the care of those 5-7yr olds that Helen is concerned about? Are girls boundaries & rights to privacy & dignity really worth the tantrums evident on twitter? Complaining about someone standing up for those 5-7 yr olds & calling her a bigot for doing so really doesn't endear them to anyone does it?