Please can someone who thinks that TWAW..

[BertrandRussell]

...explain to me the intellectual process that got you there? I promise -and as far as I can I promise on behalf of other people - not to challenge or argue and only ask clarification questuons. I just want to understand, even if I don't agree.

@50greyshades

I don't know what world you're living in but cisgender women can be rapists, voyeurs and paedophiles.

You joined Mumsnet tonight to tell us a lie. Rape in the UK means penetration with a penis. Women cannot rape. It is an man's offence. Not our crime. Thank you XX

Women can rape. Look up the definition of rape because you're sort of excusing people like Vanessa George.

98% v. 0.2%

Also majority of rape cases involving females are cases where the female abetted rapist in the commission of the crime. Penis still needed.

In a country where 1.5 million women have faced rape or sexual assault, and where so free of these rapes result in a charge, let alone a conviction, it’s fucking obscene to present the 1 or 2 women who have been found guilty of rape, (which by necessity in this country means aiding a man to rape), as a gotcha.

So few

But when one or two trans women commit a crime like rape it's presented as a gotcha when the vast majority of them don't go on to commit these crimes.

You are right. The vast majority of men are not rapists. It is still true that the vast majority of rapists are men.

@jellyfrizz

In these instances all that I can see is that they would be harassed and therefore the statement made by the OP that they do want trans people to live peacefully and unharassed is unrealistic.

Then the answer is to deal with those doing the harassing.

I think there'd be a fair few people on this thread harassing anyone who appeared to be a man using the women's toilets or changing room. Do they have to carry a sign around saying "don't worry I'm a transman so biologically this is the space I should be getting changed in?"

But when one or two trans women commit a crime like rape it's presented as a gotcha when the vast majority of them don't go on to commit these crimes.

Unfortunately it is not just one or two transwomen who are sex offenders. Of the cohort of prisoners who identify as transwomen over 40% are sex offenders compared with an average of 19% amongst other male prisoners. However, you are quite right to say that not all transwomen are rapists just as not all other male people are rapists.

I read rat's definition and came to the conclusion it's about "passing". As in, someone who feels innately female and looks female in a generally agreed way.

1. If that's the case, half the women on this board would fail the definition. I definitely don't "feel" female, although I am quite glad to have a working clitoris.

2. I thought the whole passing argument was transphobic? Not to mention unnecessary. Under the GRA, you just need to change your name on you utility bills. No surgery, hormone treatment or even the need to shave your beard off. TBH, I do agree with that stance if it's about social gender - I find the insistence on chopping and changing a child's perfectly healthy body parts stomach-churning.

It does not excuse or remove the need for boundaries around single sex spaces.

A victim is a victim and any gender (or not) can be a perpetrator. I agree that cisgender men commit acts of rape to an extent that a cisgender woman never could and on a greater scale but I don't think people should delude themselves into believing all cisgender women are incapable of being the same things that cisgender men, trans women, trans men, non-binary people, intersex people can be too.

Try asking that question on Billy Bragg's facebook page. There are an awful lot of people there who say that TWAW. They also call women horrible, defamatory, dehumanising names. It is a deeply depressing place.

And if I buy a lottery ticket, I’ve got just as much chance to win the lottery as anyone else (despite them having bought 100 tickets). Your understanding of statistical probability seems very askew, I’m afraid.

Try asking that question on Billy Bragg's facebook page. There are an awful lot of people there who say that TWAW. They also call women horrible, defamatory, dehumanising names. It is a deeply depressing place.

It's all misogynistic posturing.

Who is deluding themselves? I am quite aware that 0.2% of the convicted sex offenders in this country are female and that ,just as for male offenders, there will be many who will not be convicted.
Of the 98% who are male sex offenders;men, transwomen and non binary people born male there is no evidence to suggest that gender identity lessens the likelihood of being a sex offender.

@50greyshades

In British law rape is penetration by a penis. So women can never commit rape.

The vast majority of sexual crime is perpetrated by the male sex.
In contrast female sexual offending is rare. Only 1% of sexual crime is committed by the female sex.
This is clearly evidenced by official prison statistics.

.
Ministry Of Justice Offender Management Statistics obtained for 31st March 2019 show that 99% of the 13359 sex offenders in prison in England and Wales were male (13,234 prisoners).

Only 1% of sex offenders were female (125 prisoners).

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/offender-management-statistics-quarterly-aprilto-june-2019

.

@colourmagic I think the line between rape and sexual assault is vague and if Vanessa George, Myra Hindley or Rose West had done that to my child I'd call it rape not sexual assault. Sexual assault is a form of rape ultimately.

[quote 50greyshades]@colourmagic I think the line between rape and sexual assault is vague and if Vanessa George, Myra Hindley or Rose West had done that to my child I'd call it rape not sexual assault. Sexual assault is a form of rape ultimately.[/quote]
Whatever you call it, the definition in law is clear. Only someone using a penis to penetrate can commit rape in British law. Penetration by other means is sexual assault.

Female sex offenders are scum and it is a blessing that there are so few of them..Male sex offenders are also scum and unfortunately there are so many of them.

You can't refute the statistics but you can refute the delusion that cisgender women can't be sex offenders, however common or rare it is.

@334bu would be interesting to know if the 40% of prisoners who are sex offenders and identify as trans women do so before or after conviction.

No one is saying that women are never sex offenders. We are correcting your assertion that women in the UK are rapists. This is incorrect. Rape in the UK means penetration by a penis, it is a crime perpetrated by men.

I'm out.

Bert I am sorry your resurrected thread has been hijacked.

@foxgoosefinch if any person used something other than a penis in a form of psychological abuse and violation of my body I'd call it rape. The law needs fixing. "Sexual assault" waters down vile acts.

would be interesting to know if the 40% of prisoners who are sex offenders and identify as trans women do so before or after conviction

Why? What does that change? Acceptance without exception 55. They say they are transwomen then they are transwomen or is that not what Stonewall says?