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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

New Kirkup article about Bercow's refusal to let MPs discuss Karen White

118 replies

OrchidInTheSun · 14/09/2018 12:43

As we thought, Bercow does indeed have connections with LGBT lobbying groups - he is president of the Kaleidoscope Trust

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/09/the-state-has-failed-karen-whites-victims/

OP posts:
Theswaggyotter · 14/09/2018 16:27

Done.
I’m sick of being silenced

Callmejudith · 14/09/2018 17:18

James is my new hero

Apollo440 · 14/09/2018 17:55

I've subscribed to the Spectator. It's the least I can do. I have also completely changed my mind about the importance of traditional print media given how virtually every other online media has been bullied into submission by TRAs. But also hat's off to Mumsnet for allowing people a voice. I think they have been instrumental in starting the debate the trans lobby wanted to avoid.

CrackpotsArePots · 14/09/2018 18:01

It's just very, very hard not to conclude that he does not give the shiniest of shits about women.

And that there are many, many , many people like him in the government, the media, charities and the public sector

VickyEadie · 14/09/2018 18:22

It's just very, very hard not to conclude that he does not give the shiniest of shits about women.

And that there are many, many , many people like him in the government, the media, charities and the public sector

partystress · 14/09/2018 18:24

He's my MP. I've emailed him today to ask what his justification is and whether he doesn't think that it is suppression of highly relevant debate this close to the closure of the GRA consultation. I have had an auto reply saying he will respond within 10 working days.

Dear Mr Bercow

You are my constituency MP. Coverage of your refusal to allow the proposed UQ prompted by the Karen White case has alarmed me.

As the consultation period on changes to the GRA nears closure, stifling debate on one aspect of the impact on sex-based rights of allowing self-id, is very worrying.

I appreciate as president of an LGBT-advocacy group that you may feel in a difficult position on this. Please make yourself aware of the agenda of groups such as Fair Play for Women and A Woman's Place, and read the compelling journalism of Janice Turner to understand that there is no intention to discriminate against transgender people, but that the extension and protection of transgender rights needs to be progressed without diminishing the vital sex-based protections that women have fought hard to achieve.

Single-sex spaces are vital for women and girls for so many reasons. Many women in prisons will already have been the victims of assault and sexual violence by men. Allowing prisoners who are still intact males into women's prisons puts all women there at risk and is cruel beyond belief to those who have been victims of male violence and abuse.

Girls dealing with menstruation for the first time, or seeking refuge from the constant 'banter' on breast size and bras from their boy peers, need girls' toilets in schools.

Women and children sheltering in refuges having suffered or witnessed violence and abuse need space away from men: they do not need men, whether ill-intentioned or not, in the spaces that have been designed to help them recover from that trauma.

You will, I am sure, be aware of the multitude of strategies that have been employed by pressure groups and a small but very vocal group of academics to stifle public debate and questioning of the risks to women of allowing self-id: these include physical violence, attempts to remove women from their jobs (sometimes successfully), intimidation and no-platforming. Parliament should be above this.

I am a mother of two teenage children, one of them a daughter. I have fought for and celebrated equal rights for people regardless of race, sex or sexual orientation. I firmly believe that transgender people should be afforded the same protection from discrimination and violence as anyone else. I do not think that that translates into allowing someone who retains a penis to be classed as a woman for the purposes of entry to places that are designated as single sex spaces for women.

The Karen White case is one example of the risks to women and came about because of interpretation of right-based law by a government institution. If that is not worthy of debate in Parliament, I would like to know why.

I look forward to your response.

ignatiusjreilly · 14/09/2018 18:27

Another excellent article from JK.

I find I can read Spectator articles via Google without having to subscribe.
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/09/the-state-has-failed-karen-whites-victims/amp/

Does that work for anyone else?

I might have to subscribe though, as they definitely deserve more readers for not being afraid to ask questions on this issue.

ignatiusjreilly · 14/09/2018 18:30

partystress very well-written letter. Please let us know if you get a response.

SophoclesTheFox · 14/09/2018 18:30

Good article, James.

And I see that it is David Davies, that unlikely but doughty champion of women's free speech, who is putting his head above the parapet again. Well played David.

Grow some fucking backbone, MPs!

IAmNotInvisible · 14/09/2018 18:32

Is it worth starting a yougov petition? The blocking of the upskirting debate galvanised lots of people and reached mainstream news. Would have thought wider publicity of Bercow's blocking questions would raise a few more eyebrows.

partystress · 14/09/2018 18:37

Already had a response! They are primed and ready to stamp on our uppity asses....

Mr Speaker receives many applications for Urgent Questions every day but regretfully due to time constraints not all can be given debating time.

I have replied and asked for an answer as to why this particular issue was deemed not worthy of debating time, especially given that women are underrepresented in Parliament and therefore need the leadership of that institution to listen to their concerns.

Ereshkigal · 14/09/2018 18:37

Thank you so much again James. Such a regular occurrence that I say that!

Ereshkigal · 14/09/2018 18:39

Already had a response! They are primed and ready to stamp on our uppity asses....

I bet they are! That's like the BBC brush off of why they didn't cover the Challenor story.

MrsTerryPratchett · 14/09/2018 19:12

Mr Speaker receives many applications for Urgent Questions every day but regretfully due to time constraints not all can be given debating time.

Translation: We don't actively hate you. We just don't give a shit about you.

BayeauxT · 14/09/2018 19:39

Your letter is great partystress - I used it to cobble together an email to my Tory MP; I wrote to him earlier this year to ask his position re the GRA and while he was supportive he also said at the time that single-sex organisations would be sensible about how they applied the rules. Obviously Karen White shows that up to be rather naive - so I’ve just done an ‘I told you so’! And thrown in a few choice words about Bercow...

AspieAndProud · 14/09/2018 19:45

"Unexpected item in the bagging area."

There's a joke in here somewhere but I don't want to get myself banned.

AnyFucker · 14/09/2018 19:50

Great article, James

SunsetBeetch · 14/09/2018 19:51

More interesting stuff on Bercow:

www.stonewall.org.uk/john-bercow

"And as @alonelybeachhut has just reminded us, Bercow also covered up for Keith Vaz and prevented the police investigation into Vaz's exploits with young male prostitutes being raised in parliament"

twitter.com/PilgrimTucker/status/1040664404315066370?s=19

"oh yes, the VAZ story is far worse than rent boys.
google his name with Nigel Philpot Jones ...that is part of some of the story"

twitter.com/alonelybeachhut/status/1040664272253145088?s=19

"The same Keith Vaz who "acted in an inappropriate and bullying way to try and stop the council from evicting a male brothel owner over missing rent payments"

twitter.com/PilgrimTucker/status/1040669091890118657?s=19

Wheels within wheels...

Evidencebased · 14/09/2018 20:01

Incisive writing from James, again. Thank you.

This opens the issue, in a very clear way.

But if there's no public outcry at this appalling situation of the actions of the Government and the Prison Service locking up vunerable women in a way that results in their rape then it won't matter/ they'll get away with it/ it'll happen again.
The Speakers refusal to allow any discussion of this is part of how it gets swept under the carpet.
Why is every MP not clamouring to demand of the Government what went wrong?

Do one thing this weekend- ask your own MP to get this discussed in Parliament.
www.parliament.uk/get-involved/contact-your-mp/

There are imprisoned women in our country talking about this tonight- and they're not just angry: they are also very afraid.
Speak up for them.

BoreOfWhabylon · 14/09/2018 20:18

Thank you once again James Kirkup. I am seething at Bercow's conduct.

And great letter partystress

FermatsTheorem · 14/09/2018 20:21

Has anyone bookmarked the submissions by the prison psychologist's association to Maria Miller's enquiry, and the statement by the prison governors' association?

My MP is super-woke: I would like to be able to say to him "look, people in positions of authority were told beforehand quite explicitly that situations like Karen White's sexual assaults on female inmates would take place, their concerns were brushed off as unfounded, and guess what, they were right all along."

happydappy2 · 14/09/2018 20:29

Have emailed my mp about this.
What angers me the most is this.
Who decided that a man could legally change their sex to female? I bet it was a man.With no thought of how that would affect women & children.
Here we have a situation where John Bercow is not allowing the decision to house a rapist & peado in a womens & childrens prison...to be discussed in parliament...it is despicable. He should be ashamed.

LangCleg · 14/09/2018 20:31

Fermats

Full thing here:

data.parliament.uk/WrittenEvidence/CommitteeEvidence.svc/EvidenceDocument/Women%20and%20Equalities/Transgender%20Equality/written/19532.html

The paragraph usually quoted is this one:

The converse is the ever-increasing tide of referrals of patients in prison serving long or indeterminate sentences for serious sexual offences. These vastly outnumber the number of prisoners incarcerated for more ordinary, non-sexual, offences. It has been rather naïvely suggested that nobody would seek to pretend transsexual status in prison if this were not actually the case. There are, to those of us who actually interview the prisoners, in fact very many reasons why people might pretend this. These vary from the opportunity to have trips out of prison through to a desire for a transfer to the female estate (to the same prison as a co-defendant) through to the idea that a parole board will perceive somebody who is female as being less dangerous through to a [false] belief that hormone treatment will actually render one less dangerous through to wanting a special or protected status within the prison system and even (in one very well evidenced case that a highly concerned Prison Governor brought particularly to my attention) a plethora of prison intelligence information suggesting that the driving force was a desire to make subsequent sexual offending very much easier, females being generally perceived as low risk in this regard. I am sure that the Governor concerned would be happy to talk about this.

Nobody can say that Maria Miller and the government were not warned. The British Association of Gender Identity Specialists were not invited to give evidence in person to the inquiry based on this. Jess Bradley was.

FermatsTheorem · 14/09/2018 20:34

Thank you Lang.

I think it's time to write my MP a letter. I've held off so far because he circulated some odious piece of woke propaganda round all party members (before I quit over this and anti-Semitism) so I reckoned he was a lost cause. But I think it's time to write nonetheless.

FermatsTheorem · 14/09/2018 20:36

I believe ATH were also asked to "give evidence" - was Tara the Wolf a member? And does anyone have any choice quotes of theirs about releasing all trans prisoners, condemning the police, etc.?

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