Accepting the term 'cis'?

[MyBeloved]

During a debate with a teenage male family member, I was told I had to accept I was a ciswoman, not a woman...whether I liked it or not! I was also told as a ciswoman I had priviages trans mtf could only dream of.

I feel angry. Should I accept this? Or shall I continue standing up for my adult human female rights?!

So you could have an XX person that has had surgery to give them a penis genuinely able to use female changing rooms because they are female genetically?

You could practically count on one hand the number of women who have phalloplasty. And it's not a penis.

Mostly it's a lot of young women identifying as men to escape objectification.

And yes, if you're a woman, you access female facilities. It's the only condition.

@Datun.

Sorry I'm not understanding the last sentence

And yes, if you're a woman, you access female facilities. It's the only condition.

Does that mean that transmen, who are in the process of transitioning, or if they are post op (understand that is very rare) that they do still use female facilities?

Just trying to get my head around this.

Doesn't this make things very difficult?

So if I'm in my swimming pool changing room a person could walk in who looks just like a man. I won't have any idea if he is a man (XY) a man self identifying as a woman or a transman who should be there?

How do we deal with that then?

TheBrownPaperTeddy

I can only speak for myself, and my position is that if you are a woman you use the woman's facilities

The fact they look like a man is something that the person themselves will have to deal with.

If they want to use the gents, crack on. I certainly wouldn't tell them they had to.

But I realise, that appearance can present a problem.

Which is one of the reasons I disagree with the ideology in the first place. It enjoys the problems it creates.

Women looking exactly like men is used as a gotcha for transactivists. Which irritates me, because they themselves are using the negatives of their ideology to promote it.

"And yes, if you're a woman, you access female facilities. It's the only condition"

Brown, I think datun is using the standard definition of woman there (adult human female) regardless of gender presentation. So yes, a transman is female = use female facilities.

Medicated transmen may be more convincing due to the additive effects of testosterone, but there are still clues. Btw you mentioned neophalloplasty, have you looked at the results of it? It's not the most convincing...

Thank you for answering.

Will follow the discussion with interest.

Plus - regardless of what the neopenis looks like - the massive arm and leg scarring would be a big clue...

Oh sorry, yes. When I say woman I mean an adult human female.

A transman is an adult human female.

In the kindest possible way, nobody is going to be mistaking the results of a phalloplasty for an actual penis. I'd say the biggest issue would be possible staring due to both that and the massive trauma to either arm or thigh that would also be visible if the person was naked.

@BeyondAnOmnishambles

I haven't looked tbh.

I think I'm more talking about the outward appearance with clothes on really.

So if someone just walked by into ladies toilets or changing room in a shop maybe.

If you weren't looking closely and saw a "man" you aren't really going to know what biological sex they are?

In fact part of the reason I keep going back to the donor site damage is, how can you possibly go "stealth" after that? How would you explain it to people who ask? And they will, because it's so traumatic looking that most people's reaction will be concern. How would you explain it to a worried child?

Many transmen will be menstruating, breastfeeding, expressing. Have miscarriages, morning sickness.

All requiring female facilities.

If they have medicated and can pass, then it's up to them. I'm not going to police where they go.

And yes, looking like men will make it a pain in the arse for the women in the facility, should they be in a female facility.

I agree. It's a mess.

Anyone remember Carry On Doctor when the man is on the male ward with a sympathetic pregnancy /birth?

Oh how we laughed at the silliness of it...

In the kindest possible way, nobody is going to be mistaking the results of a phalloplasty for an actual penis. I'd say the biggest issue would be possible staring due to both that and the massive trauma to either arm or thigh that would also be visible if the person was naked.

Well, but if you only glance at it? Most of us would look away before being able to make a judgement, no?

Though on the other hand, phalloplasty probably will be on the to do list of people only once they pass. And then, the issues would start with seeing a bearded guy, I doubt anyone would wait for the pants to come off.
As always, it always hinges on the right of women to call someone out /get management, if they are unsure whether someone is the wrong sex.

(In the case some transman passing: why would they even want to go to women's facilities?
I believe with transmen, the problem is rather academic? )

Women looking exactly like men is used as a gotcha for transactivists. Which irritates me, because they themselves are using the negatives of their ideology to promote it.

This. We didn't ask for this bullshit. It's a problem they created.

@JackyHolyoake
Thanks for linking that essay - that was absolutely brilliant.