The death of women's sports?

[vicviking]

Sorry but seeing the threads on British Gymnastics and Kathleen Stock's comments on the race have made me seriously question what women's sports will look like in 10-15 years from now. We have an obesity crisis; we have women and girls under-exercising (esp once they hit puberty) and we now have a movement that would eventually make it impossible for natal women to win in some sports and leave them more vulnerable to injury in others. There is also the issue of having to share dressing rooms with natal boys/men.

I already decided against enrolling my daughter for gymnastics for a variety of reasons (including safeguarding) but have been considering team sports. I do wonder now about her safety if she starts to have to play against teams with natal boys.

And no I am not a pearl clutcher - I evaluate risk quite carefully. The risks of never being able to win at an individual sport, injury in a team sport and having to share a changing room with a natal boy when would prefer privacy and dignity for her developing body are real. Maybe not now she is so young but with the policies that are being put in place and the creeping acceptance of these nonsensical practices what will women's sport look like when she is at her peak age for performance? Will her and her friends still bother with sport or will these policies have driven women and girls out? Do the governing bodies advocating these policies care?

I have two young British champions and British record holders in my family. Both dedicate significant time every week (and have done for some years) to training. They are already aware that if boys are allowed to compete with them, they won't win.

Nobody in government seems to care at all. But then, they don't care about the girls' safety and privacy, so why would they give a toss about them being forced out of their sport?

If every time a sports woman was up against a natal male she refused to compete that would help. In most cases they will lose anyway. Might as well lose for a principle rather than take part in a situation that is inherently unfair.

I know how competitive sports people are and they usually don't do politics but if we continue to accept these incursions then it will end in the death of women's sports.

I'm trying to come to terms with how many women support this.

Sorry I don't see this as an issue for individual sports women to sort out. Their coaches and the infrastructure around them should support these actions as they too lose out due to these policies.

Sorry I was arguing with myself there and not Upstart.

I agree that sportswomen need to refuse to cooperate.

At what price comes holding your tongue? You get to be one of the last femalesvin your sport, you validate the destruction of the sport with your participation against a man. And you lose anyway.

Go down with dignity and try to preserve the sport for future generations. Say no.

Upstart - I think sportswomen who support this are not thinking about the future of their sport.

If every time a sports woman was up against a natal male she refused to compete that would help. In most cases they will lose anyway. Might as well lose for a principle rather than take part in a situation that is inherently unfair

That won’t work for many sports , because they have to be selected for a team or a member of their national governing body and they will get deselected if they take a stand against their national governing body.

My child plays sport at national level and they are on the perfirmance pathway for that sports . They have to to sign up to a raft of policies and procedures or they will be kicked out. You have to be an individual member of the national body to play in even a very local competition, let alone a national level one.

This is one of the things that got me into all this. I am a low level coach of swimmers, a huge difference in the physical capabilities of boys and girls.

One of my son's friends is a fencer (fenceman/fenceperson/something else?). He's not bad for his age, but not near the top of his sport. He was saying laughingly to DS that he 'might identify as a girl for a bit' and see how he got on.

He's a nice lad and he was joking, but is there actually any bar to him doing so? Is there a set time for which someone has to 'girl' before they can enter? A time they have to persist, during an after competition? Even someone who'll say 'Nice try, kid, but nobody's fooled'?

I mean, I assume there is, surely.

Thanks Rosemary. I just wonder if she got all the way to the top and had to play against a natal male knowing she is guaranteed to lose would she do it. Yes she would be kicked out of her sport but my point is in 10-15 years time girls may never win anyway if these policies continue.

You are right , they won’t win against boys / men. But if they are barred from their sport , they won’t be able to play in ANY events. So for most sports they will have to stop doing it completely .

These bastards have us stiched up nicely.

My child is under 16 and I can tell you right now which boy in their age group will be identifying as a girl, once they have gained their full male height, muscle mass etc .

And no, it’s not because they like pink or wear nail polish. It’s because they are utterly obsessed and will do ANYTHING to win at their sport. They already do things that have other families whispering about child abuse.

I already decided against enrolling my daughter for gymnastics for a variety of reasons (including safeguarding)

Would it be helpful for parents to contact clubs and tell them they won't be enrolling their daughters, and why? Surely we need to make some kind of a stand against this? Although parents of girls being beaten in Connecticut seem to have gotten nowhere :(

www.wtnh.com/news/connecticut/petitions-circulate-after-transgender-athletes-take-top-spots-in-state-competition/1236486365

Look how careful that mother has to be, trying to push the problem on a few years, she can't just say "he's a boy, he shouldn't be taking all the prizes from girls, including college scholarships".

Grauniad

In the UK yes, the Equality Acts makes sports exempt, and they are allowed to be sex segregated. But it turns out that someone has to be the one to make a complaint about that rule being broken.
This is one problem with The Equality Act. It is a law, but it isn't being adhered to or enforced. Its being left to individuals to manage.

Oh yes the drive to win is so strong in some families.

I am not even super competitive but having no chance of winning then what would be the point. I was a okay not brilliant sportswoman in my day and the chance to win as well as the exercise is what made sport fun and exciting and got me off the sofa to play.

We need a fighting fund to take on legal cases under the Equality Act. I have no means to set this up but wish I could.

A few well chosen test cases will settle this.

The TRAs are targeting litigation and so must we. I am in for some money if some women can set this up.

Op - yes

Sports has always been "for men"

Many men resent having women's sports shown on telly, given airtime
This also comes just as women's sports are starting to make seriosu inroads with sponsorship deals, airtime, individual advertising and clothing deals and so on
Why SHOULD women have this stuff? Sport is for men.
While it was "second class", hardly ever seen on telly, only a handful of women were famous etc it was bearable
Now that the fame and money is there, men are taking it back.

Plus of course all the men who have been saying for YEARS "you want equality you should play men at sports then" well now it's happening. FUCK YOU, WOMEN!!!

It's just standard patriarchal / mra backlash about women making gains.

Yes Juells I will do this.

Upstart - law breaking all over. We should all walk round with these exemptions on a small piece of card and pull them out when someone advocates policies that override these exemptions. We also need people to complain. I will be one of them.

Thats not a bad idea. The problem with laws is there has to be social as well as legal support for them to work, as people pick and choose the ones they want to uphold.

People silenced with fear =/= support. But it does equal authoritarianism.

I will be interested to compare the amount of transwomen who appear in women's sports to the amount of transwomen who appear in equestrian sports where men and women can compete equally... could be informative. I imagine spending most of your time getting covered in horse shit and breaking bones every 5 minutes doesn't appeal to those wedded to the idea that women are "ladylike" though...

Whilst I absolutely agree that this issue is an outrage, I think it’s a huge over-reaction to consider not encouraging your girls to participate in sports. There are so many benefits - friendships, fitness, health, fun - and they can get these even if they play with boys. Youth sports have a lot of emphasis on safety for both sexes, because all children need extra protection.

Well they don’t have enough protection ( in the opinion of most parents) if girls have might have to share changing and showering facilities with boys .

That would outweigh the “friendships , fitness, health and fun “ for most pubescent girls.

And playingwith boys is often not the issue, at least in non contact sports. It’s competing against boys , which is pretty much a hopeless task.

Sporting behaviour is playing fair. We expect that when we play a sport. This just isn't sporting.

Yes I would encourage my daughter to play sport but if things continue then we all know that in thr future her chances of any real success have been diminished.

I don't think it is an over-reaction to down tools if the rules are stacked against you.