The death of women's sports?

[vicviking]

Sorry but seeing the threads on British Gymnastics and Kathleen Stock's comments on the race have made me seriously question what women's sports will look like in 10-15 years from now. We have an obesity crisis; we have women and girls under-exercising (esp once they hit puberty) and we now have a movement that would eventually make it impossible for natal women to win in some sports and leave them more vulnerable to injury in others. There is also the issue of having to share dressing rooms with natal boys/men.

I already decided against enrolling my daughter for gymnastics for a variety of reasons (including safeguarding) but have been considering team sports. I do wonder now about her safety if she starts to have to play against teams with natal boys.

And no I am not a pearl clutcher - I evaluate risk quite carefully. The risks of never being able to win at an individual sport, injury in a team sport and having to share a changing room with a natal boy when would prefer privacy and dignity for her developing body are real. Maybe not now she is so young but with the policies that are being put in place and the creeping acceptance of these nonsensical practices what will women's sport look like when she is at her peak age for performance? Will her and her friends still bother with sport or will these policies have driven women and girls out? Do the governing bodies advocating these policies care?

My DD plays for a girls football team, I wouldn't ever advise her to stop playing because it is a wonderful part of her life. But my heart sinks when I watch them training and see what a truly special space it is for them to share, as girls, together. If they have to include boys then not only will privacy become an issue in the changing rooms but also I think something really precious will be lost, that female only space. What an utter shame.

Even in sports where men and women compete together, transwomen are barging their way in and hoovering up resources meant to encourage female participation, as well as media attention.

Witness the utterly uncritical, sycophantic and copious coverage given to a "female", very third-rate, racing driver called Charlie Martin. Martin was born male and began a motorsport career with none of the disadvantages that being female entails, transitioning aged about 30. Now supposedly a poster girl for women in motorsport and happy to claim women's awards and membership of women's associations. Frequently claims to have finished on the podium, when it's a class podium corresponding to a low overall finishing position, but never pulled up on it, or anything else.

AspieAndProud - reporting might need to be incredibly convoluted, but people will know that it’s a man.

Iused2BanOptimist - Serena is a great role model for women, physically and mentally strong. She wouldn’t hold back if she got pitted against a transwoman.

Generally speaking: The thing about Wimbledon is that it’s not just about tennis. It’s also not just about the strawberries and cream, though that’s about the experience of Wimbledon. A lot of people aren’t interested in sports at all, many are interested in one or two or three sports. But everybody knows about Wimbledon. Lots of people watch Wimbledon, and some of them play tennis and some know about how players get to Wimbledon. If a Trixiee or Melanee or a name that ends in -ee, suddenly pops up having smashed their way through the lead-up tournaments, and plays with the physical force that only a male musculo-skeletal power can deliver – then loads of ordinary people will get “woke” to the reality of what’s happened to women’s sports.

And then will question what can’t be said about that person’s tennis history, because deadnaming is disallowed.

There’s a Pratchett quote, which I can’t recall exactly, but it’s along the lines of “history only happens when it happens to you”. In other words, it’s often only when it becomes personal, for whatever reason, that realisation dawns. But it’s almost criminal that realisation, when it happens, will only be after much damage has been done to girls and women.

A man has been given a Women's Gaming Award for Best Presenter.

Even though there's an Advocacy award for men.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-45502044

Women in esports are unhappy, to say the least.

A man called Tiffany is dominating women's volleyball in Brazil. Brazil has self-id. Tiffany was a mediocre men's player before transitioning, now he's dominating the women's game

pjmedia.com/trending/man-named-tiffany-dominating-womens-pro-volleyball-brazil/

Maybe the sticker campaign can get a bit more specific, we need some slogans.

coed sports are unsporting

There's another example in volleyball in the USA. www.nbcnews.com/video/transgender-volleyball-player-eyes-2020-olympic-games-902821443929?v=railb&

In case you don't first recognise which one is Tia in the footage of them training, they're the one sporting the tiniest shorts and the only one doing a hip wiggle whilst playing their sport.

The next Olympic games is going to be very interesting...

One of the problems feminists face over this issue is that they'll happily state that women should be able to be in front line combat roles, even special forces, i.e. go to war against men, but when a man throws them a bouncy ball and asks 'wanna play a game?' they start crying about how easily their legs and arms snap in half and how the physical differences make everything ridiculously unfair.

The narrative needs more consistency.

One of the problems feminists face over this issue is that they'll happily state that women should be able to be in front line combat roles, even special forces, i.e. go to war against men, but when a man throws them a bouncy ball and asks 'wanna play a game?' they start crying about how easily their legs and arms snap in half and how the physical differences make everything ridiculously unfair.

Yeah, that's exactly it, isn't it? Why not just make women compete against men in all events an races and have done with it?

FFS.

Yes that’s right, because modern warfare is exactly like sport. The two are directly comparable.

That’s why professional sports people retire and go into the armed forces . Because if they score the most goals or run fastest they will also be the best fighter pilot, munitions expert or doctor.

Stands to reason.

It'd the theft of women's sports.

I cant think of any sports in which a woman or girl would have an advantage over the Male.

I watched the last of the world series triathlons today - those women are nails. It was so brilliant to watch a group of incredibly tough, strong, talented athletes battling it out.

Put a man in the mix, and that would have been destroyed utterly.

There was a theory going round for a while that women could outdo men in ultra distance running races... I'm not sure it has borne up to the test of time?

I know someone who is a coach in the UK and has links to US track.

He correctly points out that these males are also stealing women university sports scholarships.

It sounds like people are very aware, roll their eyes buy can't do or say anything.

My niece works in a service where you need to be strong and fit. She came top of her intake class (only a very few women) and beat the men on strength and stamina. It didn't go down well but she also did martial arts (could also beat the boys) back then and had a sports scholarship, so was bloody fit.

She was a tomboy and now married to her wife. I guess if she was a kid now they would be voices asserting that she wanted to be a boy. Which she didn't / doesn't. She is a gorgeous (not that it matters), beautiful (not that it matters) young woman with an equally beautiful wife. I guess if you called her 'cis' you would regret it (she is very assertive too).

There are one or two events/records held by women.

Lael Wilcox becomes the first woman to win the trans (as in coast-to-coast, for the avoidance of ambiguity) America bike race for the first time.
www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jul/01/female-trans-america-endurance-racer-lael-wilcox

Nicky Spinks becomes the first person of either sex to to complete the "double Ramsey Round":
www.inov-8.com/blog/nicky-spinks-double-ramsay-round/

Courtney Dauwalter wins Moab ultramarathon (238 miles) in mixed field:
gearjunkie.com/courtney-dauwalter-moab-200-winner

The gap in men's and women's records at distances from 100m up to marathon is remarkably stable at about 10%. For 100 miles, however, the gap narrows appreciably: the men's record is 6.13.33 (the faster time of 6.10 is on a track rather than road) and the women's is 6.33.11 which I calculate to be about 5%. A quick google indicates that longer distances don't have records kept for them as they are "non standard distances."

There's not going to be a lot of data on races of 100 miles + because not that many people enter them.

It was exactly a discussion like this that led to the setting up of Fair Play for Women. Although it’s only been public facing (in a more formal sense) for the past year or so and built up a presence recently, behind the scenes it’s been active for over three years now, and has its roots very firmly in mumsnet, in discussions like this one.

Asaprofessional I wonder how much your niece would have achieved if she had been put on puberty blockers then T. Would she have developed physically and been able to reach peak fitness?

Who knows to be honest. She is over 6 foot tall as it is (but her dad's side are all huge and very sporty). She is naturally sporty and had an amazing build for athletics and sport. Her job is physical although she will be managing her own watch soon.

FermatsTheorem those times are for 100km not 100 miles. And 100km appears to be an anomaly (it's not raced on fast road/track courses very often). At longer disances the gap reverts to ~10%. For instance the overall 100 mile records are 11.28 and 12.24.

Sorry - posted in a rush - you are right of course, it is 100km.

I cant think of any sports in which a woman or girl would have an advantage over the Male.

Gymnastics. I think women are more flexible than men hence the different events in men's and women's gymnastics. Women are also smaller. I would imagine men might find the beam difficult.

There is not such thing as trans girls. They are just guys