If 'Woman' is redefined to mean 'feminine' or 'a feeling' what should we do?

[HamsterToast]

Please don't think I'm being defeatist or a downer regarding all the great work being done to protect sex-based needs for women.

However, I find myself wanting to plan for what to do if we lose this. If 'woman' becomes legally defined as how you look or feel, and sex is taken out of it totally.

Some ideas I have had are:

• Use 'female' instead of woman? Campaign for the inclusion of 'female' in legislation?
• Openly and publicly demonstrate against females having to be feminine?
• Provide advice about what to do if you are targeted by a predatory male in a female space?
• Set up new spaces somehow?
• Set up support for victims of assault in this context?
• Grassroots organisations similar to the 60s?

We can always hope for the best but it might be good to plan for the worst and how we will move forward?

Deepwater solo - yes PoMo, its a certain type of person that seems to have an affinity with that word salad philosophy....you would hope common sense and biological science would prevail as well as lessons learnt from safeguarding errors ie rotherham, jimmy saville, childrens homes, catholic church . It seems that as soon as one door
for systematic abuse is closed, they are trying to prise open another. Girl guides and nspcc really need to hope that they are not mistaken in their beliefs that this is just about protection and the rights of a small minority of transsexuals

Agree with bd67th on the govt not so subtle attacks on women

They want us scared, compliant, no voice, skint.

Then they can push us into or out of the work force as required (and has happened so many times in history). When we are needed to work we must work, when there aare less jobs / money floating around back to the home we go as male employment must always be protected.

We are also expected to take on the majority of care duties without pay or complaint, with help around this being stripped back continuously.

I can focus on traditional feminist issues as well as the additional threat from gender ideology, that's no trouble at all.

As I read I'm finding myself thinking - nope, 'female' won't work, there's already a whole lot of twisting and appropriating of that one.... people with vaginas won't work, they'll insist it's an 'outward' vagina the same way they're insisting that a clitoris is a small penis ffs.... if biological women declared they were beeps, there would immediately be a whole lot of pseudo science and bullshit and prostituting of semantics to explain why people with penises are beeps too and there's nothing you can do about it !

And there you have it. It's the gleeful, nope, we can take that from you too manner that tells anyone with a brain precisely what it is. This is not about equality or inclusion, it's not about 'kindness' or 'live and let live', this is about dominating and controlling women.

The answer is not to engage with it, it's not to validate it by arguing with it, it's not to try and reason - you cannot reason with batshit, there are over a decade of threads and threads about the pointlessness of trying to be reasonable with cluster B personalities all over MN.

The word is No. As in a MN complete sentence. No.

But tbh, if this does manage to get into statute, it's only a matter of time before individual women and children are harmed, and once that happens the men in their lives will not then stand around wondering if they're being 'kind' enough, or if there are third ways to try and please everybody. Or whether the TW about to follow their mother/daughter/ partner into a changing room is genuine or a not yet arrested Karen White. The fact we'll all be able to say 'we repeatedly told you this would happen' won't help anybody.

It seems that as soon as one door for systematic abuse is closed, they are trying to prise open another.

iamawoman This is what really gets to me. At the risk of sounding like a tinfoil hat lady, I believe there are people with power who will try to push this type of agendas again and again and again. (A bit like trade agreements. First we fought MAI, then TTIP, now TiSA is secretly in the works. Like a zombie that just won't die).

Regarding GG: someone posted they dismantle safeguarding, want to enroll vulnerable kids and want to get the military involved: I already joked that this will be the Presidio military base - General D'Aquino scandal all over again. (Some say it was false allarm in the end, but I am not so sure. After all, someone got convicted). It is very hard to believe that nothing is ever learned from this crap that has apparently gone on forever and is 'surprisingly' discovered anew each f*ing decade (and across the globe).

I'll chain myself to some railings long before that happens.

I'm prepard for this period of madness to peak and pass, for and colluders to come to their senses, hoping we cn all learn something but no way will I allow the full dystopia without being part of some civil unrest!

I think this subject needs to be popping up on day time telly, prime time viewing, that kind of mass spread of information about what it is to be gender critical and what is actually going on would be a real watershed moment. I don’t think for one minute that most of the general public would go along with self id if they KNEW the detail. That is what we need now.

I know I sound like a tinfoil hat wearing lady for stating these thoughts, but when I see some of the men who say they feel they are women, in their over pornographisized get up, and the way they interact with women, it is all about domination, control, parading their sexual paraphilia at women, knowing they can do whatever they want under the trans label .... I wouldby be surprised if they go for lowering the age of consent next

Just had to re-sign up for this thread. Been lurking in the meantime.

The thing that immediately crossed my mind was the idea that bad laws should be pushed to their limits. ManFriday have demonstrated perfectly how to do this.

I’m imagining a massive raft of GC women self-declaring themselves male and entering men’s spaces in an organised fashion.

Surely our new name needs to be the XXers. Can the argue with that?

Well according to their logic unless we have been tested how would we know we are xx

I can’t think about the if we loose this idea, if we loose they will keep on going and they won’t stop until they can have anything they want. That is a horrible thought. My kids are not growing up in that world.

You let them have woman, they will want female too, we revert to vagina-peeps, they'll want in on that. It would never end.

I agree with what @OlennasWimple said up thread. IF self id gets passed, women and children will end up being abused. The system will then eventually be changed back with very strict rules around men mixing with women and children. As a side effect genuine transsexuals will be much worse off and be viewed with suspicion.

And it will be the TRA that will "be on the wrong side of history".

But hopefully we can avoid that and stop self id in the first place. More and more people are getting wise to it and it is getting into mainstream media gradually.

Another one intending to stick with no is a complete sentence. I will not comply.

I know I sound like a tinfoil hat wearing lady for stating these thoughts, but when I see some of the men who say they feel they are women, in their over pornographisized get up, and the way they interact with women, it is all about domination, control, parading their sexual paraphilia at women, knowing they can do whatever they want under the trans label .... I wouldby be surprised if they go for lowering the age of consent next

Well, the current transmovement is apparently an aspect of /instrumentalized by the greater Queer movement. 'Doing/embracing everything that is 'not normal' to subvert power structures', as Derrick Jenssen sums it up, and he continues: it is not for nothing that 50% of the founding document of Queer Theory is a defence of paedophilia.

Not saying every person who subscribes to queer theory/community knows that, but that is the underlying thought. To 'free' the people, allegedly. In my view the endgame is simply rule by the most ruthless, free of any moral constraints. Paradise for people like Savile & Co.

Well according to their logic unless we have been tested how would we know we are xx

I said it before and I'll say it again: It is nothing short of a miracle how >99% of the people can decide whether regarding contraception they are better off putting on a condom or taking the pill instead. And all without prior karyotyping.

But they're hardly subverting power structures are they?! TRAs are in bed with most of them (political parties, police, nspcc etc etc) and as per usual males win, females lose.

They aren’t subverting power structures. As with everything trans, they work hard to push the appearance of doing so. I suspect they also internally tell themselves they are oppressed as an excuse to seize power.

I think when it happens that we keep exposing each and every time the new system doesn't work, we shout and holler about it every time.

We are parents, we are REALLY good at repeating a message (tidy your room/eat your broccoli/ don't hit your brother).

And we've dealt with toddlers/teenagers. These activists are hilariously rank amateurs. Compare their behaviour to the temper tantrums and immature idiocy we've managed before. These fools document it all online!

Eventually even the most unaware will start to realise they backed a bad ideology, the shouting will help protect those the law won't.

I know I'm xx without being tested. I've given birth to two humans. Pretty sure I couldn't do that if I wasn't.

......... Unless I'm from the future where men can get womb transplants and have babies.

Surely changing the words which define something don't change the material thing? A rose by any other name, surely?

But once you give up 'Rose', they come for 'flower', and once they've taken flower, you realise you're left fighting for the right to be called a weed because, hey, it's better than nothing. By that point they Weedkiller your arse because everybody, including you, agrees you are not a Rose.

I AM A ROSE!!!!!

Someone has been on the Haribo again. Sorry everyone, too much statistics and E-numbers today.

They aren’t subverting power structures.

As I said, I believe what what they do assures the dominance of the ruthless.

But Queer theory holds that breaching taboos (e.g. pornification....) subverts power structures, which define, what is normal. And therefore breaching taboos is always positive and to be encouraged.

I do not buy it.

But once you give up 'Rose', they come for 'flower', and once they've taken flower, you realise you're left fighting for the right to be called a weed because, hey, it's better than nothing. By that point they Weedkiller your arse because everybody, including you, agrees you are not a Rose.

Yes thing is the taboos they want to "queer" include paedophilia

it's all rubbish