Building Bridges

[AuntMsVanillaRose]

Let's show that trans-excluding people and trans-including people can work together. You give me an example of a school or leisure centre of swimming pool where the mixed changing area (a) doesn't include lockable cubicles and/or (b) does include nakedness-allowed showers. We all work together to politely lobby the school/leisure centre/pool. A win-win situation for everyone!

It was the gap under the cubicle that a man’s head came through when I was changing - your proposal wouldn’t do a thing about that.

My local leisure centre had a man who "accidentally" exposed himself in the communal non-naked showers. He was eventually charged and convicted after he was caught exposing himself underwater in the pool.

Who is trans excluding? All the women I know wouldn’t exclude a trans identifying female from women’s spaces.

And why should women have to do all this work to satisfy the needs of a tiny minority of the public, who have demonstrated time and again that nothing other than total capitulation is acceptable.

Feminine men don’t feel comfortable in the gents? Well, the men can sort that out for themselves, it has NOTHING to do with women.

Fucking sick of being told to do men’s work for them.

Hi, River. Please don't refer to trans women as "feminine men". Not remotely the same thing.

Hi, Betty. Clearly, higher cubicle walls would solve the problem. Perhaps we could both complain to the centre responsible.

Why can't women have sex segregated spaces and services? Why are you so keen to undermine our autonomy? Whats wrong with a third mixed sex space that you can share, and just leave us alone?

Your design leaves women trapped in a cubicle with a predatory male outside and no way to call for help. Just stop it.

I agree with river
And I don’t like your self righteous patronizing tone aunt.

Feminized men, then? I appreciate your attempt (sort of), Vanilla, but I can't manage to see male people as female.

The Times recently reported that mixed sex changing accounts for 90% of sexual assaults.

Thread here

"Nine out of ten changing-room sexual complaints relate to incidents in unisex facilities — although they make up less than half of all provision."

So why would we want to force all service providers to only provide mixed sex changing when the statistics demonstrate that it makes women less safe?

Popchyk beat me to it. It hasn't got anything to do with walls or nakedness in showers per se. It's got everything to do with women being assaulted in mixed-sex spaces by men. Women need our own spaces reserved for natal women.

So you want women to accept men into female spaces. Is that the gist of it OP?

I don't know what you mean by many of your words, sorry OP.

I don't know how to discuss issues like these with someone who isn't clear with terms.

UNDER.

A man’s head appeared UNDER my cubicle, from the cubicle next to me, on the right of mine.

My friend was in the cubicle on the left.

When I went to flick my wet swimsuit off my foot, his head touched my foot.

I swore and shouted at the top of my voice, the staff notified the police.

It was at Westminster Lodge Leisure Centre, in St Albans.

Feel free to complain, but I did so at the time.

In 1997.

That was my first and last experience of mixed sex changing.

Since then I only use pools and gyms with seperate womens’ areas, and I prefer to use them during women only sessions.

My gym even has a women only room. It’s pretty cool, because it means that I, an atheist, have lots of Muslim women friends.

The centre I use has womens’, mens’ and family change areas and seperate, one-person-at-a-time unisex areas (some for the use of disabled people exclusively) so no trans people are excluded.

Do you mean:
"Let's show that

With hindsight I 'm going to ask for my post detailing my experience to be deleted as I don't think the op is posting in good faith.

I find it hard to believe that anyone could post in that manner on this website due to the recent reports on assaults in communal changing and other events.

If the op is posting in good faith then they are spectacularly unaware and/or naive.

In the meantime could I ask that no one quote me on my personal experience. Thank you.

My goodness Betty I went to that leisure centre with my two young daughters in the same year! We went into the family changing room, and there was a man there who was prancing about muttering 'bloody women and children!' Thankfully we were leaving. I never went back as I found it threatening.

Where I live now, north west, there are female only sessions and sessions, female only, for muslim women.

Nah - the OP is posting some odd stuff elsewhere on FWR.

No thanks. I'll stick to advocating for women and girls.

I also live in the northwest now, Placemats!

That was my first experience of mixed ‘changing villages’.

I think they thought they were being very progressive and modern.
Turned out it was a perverts paradise.

Wonder if they still have Aqua-zoom slides?

Clearly, higher cubicle walls would solve the problem

Have you seen how long selfie sticks are these days!

Betty What a lovely coincidence!

To be fair the OP is talking about already mixed changing areas:

You give me an example of a school or leisure centre of swimming pool where the mixed changing area (a) doesn't include lockable cubicles and/or (b) does include nakedness-allowed showers.

Have you seen how long selfie sticks are these days

I read that as 'have you seen how long dicks are these days'

Mixed changing areas (have to have cubicles) can’t double up for team events (need an open plan area for tactics and coach discussions).

Football clubs are advised not to have urinals in the change area toilets, for example, because then women can use the same facilities at a different time.

2 distinct changing areas = one Male/one female for community use can thus be used for 2 opposing same sex teams for competition/league use.

There really are lots of arguments for keeping seperate change provisions, and not many (any?) at all for doing away with them, as long as a third unisex, private, lockable change is also provided.