Building Bridges

[AuntMsVanillaRose]

Let's show that trans-excluding people and trans-including people can work together. You give me an example of a school or leisure centre of swimming pool where the mixed changing area (a) doesn't include lockable cubicles and/or (b) does include nakedness-allowed showers. We all work together to politely lobby the school/leisure centre/pool. A win-win situation for everyone!

Please don't refer to trans women as "feminine men". Not remotely the same thing

Please don't try and police other people's thoughts and language. Frankly, it's getting quite dull now. And transwomen are feminine men. By nature of their biology they are men.

Great - let's lobby the small, charity funded, community-run outdoor pool near me which has open plan single-sex changing rooms, insist they install a unisex changing village and bankrupt them. What a fucking brilliant idea for a campaign. (I'm seeing posh tossers from Goldsmiths shutting down working class women's projects because they weren't "inclusive" enough all over again.)

Or, you know what? We could just keep single sex changing rooms as single sex.

I think the OP wanted us to do the legwork of identifying these rogue single-sex spaces.

And then the OP would do the brave and stunning work of lobbying them to change their ways.

See? Teamwork.

This thread is calling out for a Public Service Announcement.

I think popchyk has it.

Much brave. Very stunning.

Forced teaming again.

Totally correct Popchyk. Their intention is so obvious, now that you’ve pointed it out.

I’m just talking to the lurkers, me.

The goady posts this morning have been good for that.

I’m now looking forward to replacing the betrousered person symbol on men’s toilet doors with the international language of graffiti knobs.

Bit concerned about that one on the top right!

Another case of atrophy?

Dear AuntLydia.

Do your own dirty work,

signed,

Women.

It's the little maggoty looking things coming off it that concern me.

Isn’t top left a memory worm 🐛?
*may have been watching too much Dr Who with dd...

Re op. Do pack it in dear, I’ve some jam tarts baking.

Single sex space for women is much like same sex marriage or abortion. If you don't want or need it, don't use it. But don't advocate for it to be taken from those who do.

Excellent point Laura

I love this notion that TRAs have the slightest interest now in 'building bridges'.

After so much time #nodebating, with all the attendant claims of literal violence ad infinitum, now it's become increasingly publicly clear that TRAism is running cover for some very nasty people, some of the more wily adherents have realized it might serve them to be seen to be reaching out.

Which is, of course, more manipulative bullshit, but you know, creepy fuckers gonna creepy fuck around.

On initial inspection I thought the top right knob was a prawn and the central one a cannon...I really need to find my reading glasses...

I meant top right when I said top left... I didn’t get much sleep last night.

They’re afraid. The truth about why they are so desperate to access female spaces is becoming more and more apparent with each public revelation and the public is becoming aware of what’s going on. They’ve realised they’re so close to losing that they’re doing the faux innocent, ‘we should talk about this’. Too little, too late. People are seeing you for what you are.

We cannot safeguard effectively as it is, let alone if we allow men free access (which is what self-id would do) to women's spaces, organisations and roles.

I'm with those who see the whole thing as being driven by men wanting to destroy safeguarding.

Cases of voyeurism in female-only spaces tend to be reported in local papers only, if at all. For that reason, the general population is unaware of the extent of covert filming of women and girls by men with an all-consuming fetish.

It's difficult to detect - like this case:
www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/voyeur-reported-by-wife-avoids-jail-for-filming-in-co-londonderry-kfc-toilet-36988144.html

Sometimes, it's downplayed (man films teenager, sexually assaults her and has other counts of taking indencent photos)
www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/16165655.Voyeur_hid_camera_in_toilet_to_film_teenage_girl/

At present, these men have to creep around surreptiously. They risk being confronted. They go to extraordinary lengths to film children and girls in toilets. Even to the extent of occupying the next cubicle for 20 minutes see here:

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/voyeur-who-filmed-women-in-winter-wonderland-toilets-given-suspended-sentence-a6837441.html

We have enough to contend with, without the extra penises.

No thanks Vanilla. I'm fine with my boundaries thanks and so is my 9 year old daughter. Go and get men to budge up instead, it's about bloody time.

AIBU thread on which the usual 'what about lesbians leching at women in changing rooms?' point has already been deployed:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3362518-Re-teenage-boy-in-female-changing-room?watched=1&msgid=80935910#80935910

What do you think this Canadian man was up to, when he got stuck behind a faux wall in a ladies toilet, and suffocated?

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/man-wall-toilet-calgary-died-accidentally_uk_5aead147e4b022f71a05654c