5 of 6 medallists in a US men's & women's championship finals were biologically male

[arranfan]

Via the excellent Prof. Kathleen Stock:

twitter.com/SamBarber1910/status/1038414373977550848

At the 2018 Connecticut State track & field championships, of the 6 medalists in the men's and women's 100 meters finals, 5 were biologically male.

Some good comments in that Twitter thread:

It's as if someone asked the monkey's paw to find a way to get equal prize money for women's sport
“You have some people who believe men are stronger and faster” ... that’d be those people who’ve noticed that every single men’s record is faster/longer/heavier/higher than every single women’s record I guess.

The women who support all this, or refuse to fight it, I don't know how in decades hence they'll be able to look at themselves in the mirror, with the destruction they're wreaking. Their own daughters will not have the rights they themselves grew up with and never fought for but were gifted by the women before them.

This. I'm not sure why they can't see the blatant rubbing nose in it misogyny of all this.

Serious offer: if anyone has a young athlete in their family who is coming up against this sort of nonsense, PM me. I have an idea, and I have money. I've said before that this is the hill I will die on.

Mine haven't come up against it - yet. But it's only a matter of time.

I don't see how people can't see that this is legitimising actual violence against women.

It is men literally physically beating up women.

Breaking legs, smashing their faces in...and creaming themselves over being allowed to do so on fucking TV.

It is absolutely vile.

SophoclesTheFox I can't understand it either, it really seems to me we are in a Stalinist state ( here, US, Canada etc), where anyone with a dissenting view, gets ostracised and labled a bigot. When we can all SEE with our own eyes, this is fucking crazy. I came across a US article some where about this and the comments were very revealing. ill see if I can find it.

I know we say that transgender and intersex are two entirely different things, which they are. However, does anyone remember the controversy surrounding the ladies' 800 metre final at Rio 2016? It was won by Caster Semenya, who is intersex. It was also suspected that the athletes finishing 2nd and 3rd were also intersex, though I don't know if this was ever confirmed. I don't know the exact nature of Semenya's condition, but I do know she has an elevated testosterone level, and physically she doesn't fit the typical body type for a female 800 metre runner. Lynsey Sharp, who came 6th, pretty much broke down on camera afterwards, and was villified for it. Paula Radcliffe did come out and say she thought that intersex athletes should be taking drugs to suppress their testosterone levels.

I am curious as to Paula Radcliffe's views on this issue. If she can see the unfairness of intersex athletes with high testosterone competing against normal females, how will she feel about actual males competing against females? Paula has nothing to lose as her professional career is over anyway (nothing to lose except her marathon world record, of course). We could do with someone like her on side.

I don’t see why the IOC and other sporting bodies can’t set the testosterone level for being allowed to compete in women’s events at 2.5. For everyone, not just for women. Then when a person can’t get their levels that low because they’re biologically male they’re not allowed to compete because they’d have an unfair advantage. Tell them once they get their level down to 2.5 they can join in.

I mean it’s not ideal as they’d still be taller and with more muscle fibre but I understand they wouldn’t be able to get their level down to 2.5 so it would effectively stop them.

I tired my mums dressing gown on once when I was little boy, can I get a medal too?

Ffs... In general, the male body IS physically stronger than the female body. We have denser bones (and brains lol derp) and a different muscle structure. I can throw stuff around easily that my wife struggles to simply lift. Facts count, not feelings. I am happy for anyone who is in the wrong body to live their life as they choose but it shouldn't impact anyone else or their liberties.

Can we pretty please just agree that they can have their own category for sports and keep the males / females separate. They can have their own channel on the telly too.

I row and used to play rugby at university and club level. If I had to play rugby against transwomen I would have been at a much higher risk of serious injury than I already was.
I also played touch rugby in single-sex and mixed-sex teams, as does my sister. You can play non-contact sports against males fairly if the balance of the team is taken into account and tactics are adjusted accordingly. However if males are competing against females for places on sports teams, then it will result in fewer females being able to compete. That also goes for rowing, which I do now.
This is intolerable.

Just been reading a few articles, including this one:

www.upworthy.com/the-next-time-someone-says-trans-people-shouldn-t-get-to-play-sports-send-them-this

Basically, it takes a couple of examples of trans athletes, and essentially concludes that, because that particular individual did not completely dominate their sport, transwomen have no advantage. The author also 'cleverly' selects sports that have quite an element of skill, rather than just being about speed and strength. The way she leaps from 'this mediocre tennis player remained mediocre once she transitioned to being a woman' to 'transwomen have no advantage' is highly illogical.

Also, I am convinced it ain't just about the testosterone!

I don’t see why the IOC and other sporting bodies can’t set the testosterone level for being allowed to compete in women’s events at 2.5
New IAAF regs are 5nmol/l in certain, mostly middle-distance events www.iaaf.org/news/press-release/eligibility-regulations-for-female-classifica - some think Caster Semenya would lose 7 seconds on her 800m times if she complies with the new regs, which I don't think she will. It's a very contested area www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/apr/25/iaaf-testosterone-rules-caster-semenya and many female athletes with naturally higher levels of testosterone are angry. I'm not sure what ensures the most fair rules, but I agree with the IAAF when they say:
"The IAAF divides competition into male and female classifications because male athletes have clear performance advantages in terms of size, strength and power, as a result (in particular) of increased lean body mass and increased serum haemoglobin, which in turn is due mainly to the fact that, starting from puberty, they produce 10‐30 times more testosterone than women"
There will be athletes who don't fit in this norm, but a line has to be drawn at some point, particularity athletics I guess, if the majority of female competitors are to stand a chance.

Wouldn't it be simpler to ban XY athletes from entering women's events, and XX athletes from entering men's events?

I love that the advert at the side of this thread is for the upcoming Women's T20 cricket... Another sport that women cannot play fairly against men (yes, I know that there are one or two women who have turned out for high level cricket teams - but I want fair representation, not token gestures of couple of women in a team)

Wouldn't it be simpler to ban XY athletes from entering women's events, and XX athletes from entering men's events?
They used to , but both the Olympic Committee and IAAF stopped sex testing in this way in the 90s. It's a complex, contested area and humiliating for athletes (especially as only women were tested) who 'fail'. Hence the introduction of hormone testing. The new IAAF regs will come in to force on November 1st this year. The science behind them is still being criticized and Caster Semenya has said she will fight the IAAF. This gives a good outline of the debate: www.sportsintegrityinitiative.com/questions-remain-iaaf-differences-sex-development-regulations/

Definitely humiliating if only women were tested!

Science has moved on, however, and I find it difficult to believe that any person with DSD can reach a high level of sport without having already discovered their condition. If not diagnosed at birth, when ambiguous physicality triggered genetic testing, then at puberty.

Intersex athletes would need a more nuanced approach that included both their biology and their lived experiences.

I see this thread has tired everyone out and you’ve all gone to bed. Don’t blame you. I’m off to beddy byes myself but the anger remains