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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

Men are forceful, women are hysterical

72 replies

Juells · 10/09/2018 06:49

I have zero interest in tennis, but usually read anything about the Williams sisters because I admire them. Was very struck by this article this morning...
news.sky.com/story/serena-williams-fined-17k-after-us-open-outburst-11494087

tut tut she's not very ladylike, is she?

OP posts:

tillytop · 10/09/2018 07:06

As usual one rule for men and another for women. Glad to see ex players like Billie Jean King supporting her. Also kudos to Serena for playing at this level when she suffers with an autoimmune illness (could say, can you imagine a man playing at top level with this condition, but that would be sexist of me wouldn't it)

Original poster

Juells · 10/09/2018 07:09

Any day now one of the middle-ranking men will admit that he's always felt like a woman inside, and then we won't have to worry about her any longer as she'll be shoved back down the ranks.

OP posts:

tillytop · 10/09/2018 07:18

but also Let's not get started on that, we could write a book!

tillytop · 10/09/2018 07:19

It's getting like netmums with all my emojis!

NotBadConsidering · 10/09/2018 07:31

I think Venus has Sjogren’s disease not Serena.

I really don’t see this at all. Even if you think there’s an issue with sexism in tennis, and even if you think the first violation for coaching (which her coach admitted) was unfair, it wasn’t sexism that made Serena smash her racket which is an automatic violation for anyone, man or woman. And it wasn’t sexism that stopped Serena from failing to realise she already had two code violations and was on her third, and controlling herself from abusing the umpire, even if she or anyone else thought he deserved it.

I’m really not buying this position of Serena as the victim of a massive injustice. She behaved appallingly, while losing, and Osaka’s brilliant play and first grand slam for Japan has become a sideline of the main show. Yes there are inconsistencies in tennis umpiring but how does that justify abuse of an official (of which she has been guilty before)?

juneau · 10/09/2018 07:35

For once, I don't agree with the feminist perspective on this. SW's coach admits that he WAS coaching her from the sidelines (although he said he thought she hadn't noticed), and she was abusive to the umpire. I remember when John McEnroe was like that - yelling at the umpire and behaving in an unsportsmanlike manner - and he was hauled over the coals for it too. SW is possibly the greatest female tennis player ever and she has a lot of experience of Grand Slam finals. She should know better than to get into a row with the umpire. He wasn't being sexist - he was penalising her for on-court transgressions and yelling 'Sexism' or any other -ism when you don't like what someone is saying actually undermines women far more than it raises them up.

tillytop · 10/09/2018 07:43

Apologies, got it wrong. Yes it's Venus who has the illness. Interesting though that people like BJ.King are supporting Serena.

tillytop · 10/09/2018 07:49

Also backed up by WTA ceo Steve Simon, Sue Barker, Andy Roddick. Sue Barker citing other instances of sexism when she has been courtside.

nauticant · 10/09/2018 08:03

I followed the thread on AIBU about this. I was surprised at the efforts made to excuse SW's bad behaviour.

It sounds like the problem here is in the men's game where umpires hold back from using sanctions when it would be justified. I don't think the answer is that if others get away with bad behaviour then a blind eye should be turned when SW behaves badly.

PanGalaticGargleBlaster · 10/09/2018 08:28

Sorry, but Serena’s behaviour over the weekend was a disgrace. It was yet another petulant outburst from her when things don’t go her way. She ruined the victory of her opponent and is now trying to spin the story into a sexism row.

juneau · 10/09/2018 08:47

Well said Pan

Lichtie · 10/09/2018 08:50

There may be instances of sexism in tennis, but what happened at the weekend wasn't it. Other than serenas appealing behaviour towards the male umpire perhaps. He was doing his job, she was the one threatening him. Feel for her opponent more than anyone.

CaptainMarvelDanvers · 10/09/2018 09:01

I think Serena didn’t behave in the best possible way but she has faced discrimination throughout her career for being a black woman.

PanGalaticGargleBlaster · 10/09/2018 09:20

but she has faced discrimination throughout her career for being a black woman

Which makes it even more disgraceful that she elects to play the sexism card in a bid to distract from her piss poor behaviour.

TooMuchPenis · 10/09/2018 09:21

Which makes it even more disgraceful that she elects to play the sexism card

Why is it more disgraceful for a balck woman, why the higher standard?

uthikoloshe · 10/09/2018 09:23

Serena gets a triple fault, for being highly strung. The umpire created a racket when he wasn't court napping. Serena has added extra spin, volley unjustified. What a balls up. Serves her right, for not being set up. Umpires to rally in support.

Thought Id lob that in.

BarrackerBarmer · 10/09/2018 09:32

Was there parity between the punishment meted out to her compared to similar punishments for men?

Noone need dispute her bad behaviour. I thought this role was about whether her punishment was harsher than punishments for men.

Was it?

PanGalaticGargleBlaster · 10/09/2018 10:43

Well I was reading in the nyt which states that during the tournament the men have collectively been penalised 23 times for code violations compared to the women’s 9. Now I don’t know if that’s a case of the men behaving more badly then the women or if the men are being policed more stridently then the women but either was it makes the sexism claim look a bit shaky.

LassWiADelicateAir · 10/09/2018 10:59

Also backed up by WTA ceo Steve Simon, Sue Barker, Andy Roddick. Sue Barker citing other instances of sexism when she has been courtside

None of whom were at the match. They are backing Williams with little, if any, facts or evidence of what happened on court.

TeaForDad · 10/09/2018 11:02

She lost her cool and got a bollocking for it, and rightly so.

Another pro was on r4 this morning, she agreed that this wasnt sexism and Carlos (umpire) is very consistent on those things.

Agree that calling sexism is bs here. I feel sorry for her opponent:/

LassWiADelicateAir · 10/09/2018 11:02

And I haven't seen anyone call her hysterical.

PanGalaticGargleBlaster · 10/09/2018 11:14

I feel sorry for her opponent

Whose maiden grand slam title and the skill and composure in which she achieved it has been largely forgotten as Serena makes it all about her.

Pookydosa1 · 10/09/2018 11:25

She went off on a petulant rant, no sympathy

LassWiADelicateAir · 10/09/2018 11:31

tut tut she's not very ladylike, is she?

No one has accused her of being unladylike or hysterical.

She's not very sports(wo)manlike, is she?

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 10/09/2018 20:42

Bad behaviour from (sports)men is considered to be rather thrillingly transgressive when anyone takes any notice of it at all. But black women even more than white women are expected to do ceaseless emotion work on behalf of everybody else rather than express their own emotions.

I don't see why Serena Williams shouldn't be entitled to the occasional strop like everyone else without being turned into a nine-day wonder over it.

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