Men are forceful, women are hysterical

[Juells]

I have zero interest in tennis, but usually read anything about the Williams sisters because I admire them. Was very struck by this article this morning...
news.sky.com/story/serena-williams-fined-17k-after-us-open-outburst-11494087

tut tut she's not very ladylike, is she?

There’s no doubt that cartoon is despicable and there’s no doubt she’s put up with that sort of stuff all her career, but how does that excuse her behaviour in this instance?

That is irrelevant to her actual behaviour on court in this incident and the umpire's response. That cartoon does not retrospectively put her in the right nor the umpire in the wrong.

I have a nuanced position on this, and I'm not claiming it is the correct one but I'll toss it in to see if it resonates. I don't think the three code violations came from a sexist place at all. Rules were broken, penalties were handed out. Unless one is heavily invested in the sexism/racism narrative and is specifically looking to generate clicks, sell media or take an opportunity to virtue signal I think most reasonable people can reach the correct conclusion that it was a game of tennis, rules were broken and enforced.

However I don't necessarily think Williams needs be dragged over the hot coals for this in the court of public opinion. High level sporting achievement requires tenacity, grit and passion. Sometimes tempers will flair it's only human. I also feel sexism/racism are still a problem and I think any woman or person of colour can be forgiven whenever that nagging doubt occurs in the back of their heads "Is this or that situation I'm in entirely fair or is this sexism or racism?"

Performing on the spot complex social analysis whilst trying to play a bloody game of high level tennis is a bit much, and this standard of expecting women and persons of colour to get it right every time is unrealistic, and accusing Williams of playing the woman or race card is unhelpful. We should live in and encourage an environment where people feel they can ask the question is this or that sexist or racist? And we should all try to puzzle through wether it is or not, and not be so quick to pile on if we then decide that it most likely isn't.

That said accusing anyone of racism/sexism is pointing a pretty big finger and the consequences of such accusations shouldn't just be collateral damage in the fight against bigotry, and in fact serves to do little else aside from pushing people into their own particular ideological corners, where people stop really communicating. I don't see anything that leads me to believe this Umpire was doing anything other than his job, I may be wrong and I'm willing to accept the consequences if I am making that error.

@CritEqual, good summary of the origin of this dispute on court. Essentially, she broke the rules and received an appropriate on court penalty in my view. The bit of this I find most disappointing seems to have passed most commentators by.

To quote SW, “You are a liar. You will never be on a court of mine as long as you live. When are you going to give me my apology? Say you are sorry,” she said.

The idea that a player (any player) should be able to accuse the official of lying, which is WAY worse than "You cannot be serious" btw and then presume to dictate the assignment of match officials to "her" courts is appalling IMV, that's plain bad sporting etiquette and shouldn't be held up as a good example by anyone.

that's plain bad sporting etiquette and shouldn't be held up as a good example by anyone

Enough with straw men. Nobody on this thread has held Williams' behaviour up as a good example, some of us have been trying to point out the sexist and racist nature of the public backlash she has been subjected to.

some of us have been trying to point out the sexist and racist nature of the public backlash she has been subjected to

No - what her apologists have been doing is trying to shut down comments on her behaviour.
You have been supporting her allegations that she was subjected to sexism on this occasion, when she wasn't. She has indeed played the sexism card here and her defenders here are happy to play along.

To quote SW, “You are a liar. You will never be on a court of mine as long as you live. When are you going to give me my apology? Say you are sorry,” she said

Yes, I was taken aback at that comment. And it us not being fearful /resentful of a powerful black woman to take exception to it. That remark is someone throwing her weight around and trying to bully an umpire.

That cartoon is disgusting, absolutely unacceptable. But it doesn't by default make SW right in how she behaved. Nor does it make the incident with the umpire one of sexism. It is a disgusting reaction to events because some people are pigs

I think things like the cartoon underline why Williams can be forgiven for wondering is something pointedly sexist/racist. Obvs the behaviour was unacceptable, but I struggle not to be somewhat restrained in my condemnation of her.

I'm suggesting that the extent of public disgust and vitriol is out of all proportion to what a white man would receive if he did the same thing.

I think you'll find the disgust and vitriol would be exactly the same, if not more, if a white man had done this in a Grand Slam final and then tried to claim he was unfairly penalised because he was a white man.

It was Serena who drew attention to possible sexism and racism so of course the aftermath of the incident is going to focus on that. If she'd simply accepted she was wrong (as anyone who knows the rules of tennis would) and apologised to her opponent, the tournament officials and her daughter and family, the matter would have been done and dusted in a day or two.

If the very experienced referee had simply controlled the situation better then it wouldn't have escalated. Umpires have a duty to control the game as best they can, not exacerbate the situation.

He has form with Venus accusing her as well of a coaching violation. Venus spoke up for herself and made an excellent defence.

www.givemesport.com/1386885-umpire-carlos-ramos-issued-coaching-violation-to-venus-williams-during-2016-french-open

www.givemesport.com/1387169-carlos-ramos-handled-williams-match-absolutely-perfectly-says-former-umpire?utm_source=self&utm_medium=widget&utm_content=syndi

By an umpire (an umpire who handed out a similar penalty to John McEnroe)

Umpires have a duty to control the game as best they can, not exacerbate the situation

He kept a dignified silence during her tirade calling him a liar and declaring he would never be on "her court" again.

Jimmy Connors shouted to the ref 'OUT, OUT, OUT,' He complained he was a player in his late 30s. He ranted and raved.

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/09/serena-williams-has-set-back-the-cause-of-womens-equality/

Here are more examples of this umpire issuing penalties.

Do you feel less equal now Lass because of Serena's actions?

I don't think excusing aggressive, violent behaviour on the grounds that men get away with it is the way to go. Levelling the playing field is not a race to the bottom.

Also, if she'd been a white man and the umpire was a black woman that man would have been destroyed.

The umpire has form? Serena has form for abusing officials, female officials.

Are we really now discussing whether the “backlash” against her is sexist? Personally my view is the reason there has been such strong criticism of her for this is because it was awful behaviour the type of which we didn’t think we would see from her again, in a Grand Slam final, while she was being soundly beaten by a fabulous opponent who’s been forgotten, and she then doubled down on her behaviour and told everyone it’s everyone else’s fault. It’s the massive contradiction of that petulance vs her brilliance that has led to such “backlash” or appropriate criticism, whichever camp you’re in.

Do you feel less equal now Lass because of Serena's actions?

I posted the article because it had examples of male players being disciplined for their behaviour by this umpire- as there are posts saying a man would have been treated differently.

I think it was you who mentioned something Connors did 30 years ago (not sure what relevance it had) but here you go Connors being penalised too.

www.si.com/tennis/beyond-baseline/2014/02/21/jimmy-connors-ivan-lendl-default-lipton

The tennis player acted badly on court, violated rules, abused and intimidated an umpire, broke a racquet on purpose.
Glad the player that acted that way, lost the match.

Nothing to do with gender, everything to do with being a bad loser and being used to getting what they want. Show some dignity to all of your supporters, particularly young women.

Serena Williams depicted in a crude racist and sexist manner. Osaka depicted as a white woman with blonde hair.

And this justifies hre behaviour because a copy of the cartoon fell through a time warp and she read it before she threw a fit.