Men are forceful, women are hysterical

[Juells]

I have zero interest in tennis, but usually read anything about the Williams sisters because I admire them. Was very struck by this article this morning...
news.sky.com/story/serena-williams-fined-17k-after-us-open-outburst-11494087

tut tut she's not very ladylike, is she?

It's not the strop that it is the issue- it's the whinging about sexism.

Sexism is a thing though, why shouldn't she call it? And regardless of the rights and wrongs of the decision itself, sexism and racism are certainly the reasons why everyone's making such a song and dance about it now

I do watch tennis now and again and male tennis players certainly get admonished, rightly so, for such behaviour. Serena stole the attention from the other player then behaved appallingly.

Sexism is wrong, however it is also wrong to project that on a situation where you have simply behaved in an embarrassing manner.

Sexism is a thing though, why shouldn't she call it?

Whining about sexism to divert attention from a bad- tempered, toddler like strop is not a good move.

Whining about sexism to divert attention from a bad- tempered, toddler like strop is not a good move.

Exactly, it also harms those who genuinely suffer at the hands of sexism.

You can almost get the impression that some people are arguing that SW's bad behaviour on the court was some kind of brave stand/protest against injustice.

those who genuinely suffer at the hands of sexism

You think women athletes don't suffer at the hands of sexism?

You think women athletes don't suffer at the hands of sexism?

Don't put words in my mouth. Of course they do, however, this specific case wasn't sexism.

And I haven't seen anyone call her hysterical

Really? There's a thread running on MN now. She's a diva bitch, hysterical, out of control, unladylike, unfeminine. Pick an insult, they've thrown it. Don't act as if you haven't seen it.

Who is any woman to say she's playing the sexism card? It IS sexism, in that women are gathering metaphorically kick her down just because she lost it, but you wouldn't feel the same about a man doing it.

Google incidents of men losing it when playing tennis - there are loads, including videoclips.

When McEnroe did this so often back in the day also, he was the bad boy of tennis people loved watching and waiting for his meltdowns.

Every day, feminists are accused of playing the "sexism card". But it's ok for you to decide other women shouldn't feel they've experienced sexism, it seems. Even when it's blatant.

You want her to be punished harder than any man has, but you can't admit why. Ramos has form - he also accused Venus of cheating. He is another who can't accept black women can be great at anything. Yes Serena made a mistake but he could have warned her yet went for the highest punishment. Still unsatisfied with that, women are gathering to stick the boot in.

Worse than men.

You aren't feminists.

The Sexism Card fgs..don't scream when you're accused of the exact same thing.

I'm not talking about you OP. Great post. But feminism that is dictatory, separatist and sexist, is not feminism. It's no wonder Feminist has become a dirty word.

Nobody has to like Serena but the sexism in the wording of insults used against her, the yapping on and on about what she did as if now her career should end, is off the scale.

She's been punished already. Even if that's not enough for some. Glad to see tennis greats supporting her

Was it sexism that led Serena to shove the ball down the throat of a female line judge? In a match chaired by a female umpire? Was it sexism that led her to scream “Come on!” during a rally that led a female umpire to dock her a point? The female umpire that Serena called “a hater” and “unattractive inside”?

As I said earlier, regardless of sexism in tennis, of which there is plenty the following is true:

Serena’s coach was seen to be coaching her by the umpire, he admitted it and the umpire enforced the law correctly.

Serena smashed her racket which is a code violation for anyone on any day.

Serena personally abused the umpire knowing she was on her third violation.

Is it sexist to call out a coach for coaching? Maybe but it doesn’t happen enough to say it happens to one sex more than another. Is it sexist to give a code violation for smashing a racket? Definitely not. Is it sexist to give a code violation for someone personally abusing you? I don’t think so. Is it inappropriate to take arguments and debate around sexism in tennis and say it was acceptable for Serena to abuse someone because of it? I don’t think so. If Ramos hadn’t given her a code violation for abuse, would that have been fair?

And I would also point out that Aussie tennis players Kyrgios and Tomic are roundly criticised for their actions and antics and rightly so.

*threaten to shove

Serena has unsurprisingly turned into a nine-day wonder (again) because she's the biggest personality in women's tennis and she brought her strop to the biggest stage.

She then proceeded to attempt to excuse her inexcusable behaviour by playing the sexism and racism cards, instead of apologising profusely for sabotaging the enjoyment of her achievement of her fellow minority ethnic, female opponent.

A handful of commentators have supported her, in particular, two women whose life's work is the promotion of the women's game - Billie Jean King and Katrina Adams - for whom Serena is their flagship if you like.

If you have a look at the hard evidence of the Serena incident, other similar incidents by both men and women on the tour, and umpiring across these, you will see that there was nothing different in the way that Serena was treated on court.

Yes, there's sexism in tennis, in womens sport and in life. Yes, some posters on social media are sexist, racist and use inappropriate language and use different language when talking about men and women and Serena in particular. In a world of free speech they are allowed to do this unfortunately.

But no, the umpire and the US Open did not treat Serena differently because she is a woman. Her strop was treated in accordance with the rules and in exactly the same way as a man's strop.

As for the suggestions that Carlos Ramos can't handle a black woman throwing insults at him and reacted more extremely ..... laughable, just laughable.

Don't act as if you haven't seen it.

I haven't seen it. I have not seen any references in the media calling her hysterical.

Every day, feminists are accused of playing the "sexism card". But it's ok for you to decide other women shouldn't feel they've experienced sexism, it seems. Even when it's blatant

Your rant is doing exactly that- playing the sexism card. This incident has nothing to do with sexism.

Ferret just as laughable as all the attempts to go so hard against SW, unto the absolute enth as if she can't ever have a strop, make a mistake.

This is a feminist board - most of you sound like sexist men over-criticising a woman for not being ladylike enough, or the right type of woman.

The punishment she's had just isn't enough for you.

"Minority ethnic opponent"..who even says that, in reality?

This thread reads like AIBU.

"Laughable" - well, there are enough sexists out there who say feminists play the "sexist card". I didn't know women also used that term, till I saw it here today.

As said - that's why feminism is a dirty word. Many of you use the same sexist terms against women as you claim men do, and yet in the other breath go on about womens' rights.

It isn't that she shouldn't be punished - it is the extent of the punishment and scale of the backlash and language used about her.

Your feminism is selective.You've your own attempted erasure escalating pretty quickly and turn off enough posters with your speech given the numbers of people who openly say they hide this board.

I should think SW will be ok.

On this thread she's been described as a "toddler". If I look at the range of people in public life I do see a lot who seem less well-regulated than my 2-year-old, but Williams is emphatically not one of them.

There has been a reaction on this thread to this ridiculous notion that her being treated in the way she was was due to sexism - rather than her bad behaviour.

I called her a toddler- smashing her toy is toddler like behaviour.

No one is saying Serena can’t have a strop. I am saying she can’t have a strop, be appropriately punished for the strop then blame it on other people. How she reacted to any perceived injustice was her responsibility alone. And it’s not the first. She’s abused officials in the past. Serena will be ok, because her status has allowed her to deflect from her bad behaviour, while also deflecting from the fact her opponent was beating her convincingly regardless of the incident. Personally I think the punishment she’s had is appropriate; she was appropriately given 3 code violations and received a large fine. What isn’t appropriate is the fact she hasn’t publicly apologised to Osaka for her behaviour. I think she should apologise to the officials too, but I can’t see that happening.

I just don’t get her defenders. Serena is talked about as being a role model. If you’re a kid playing tennis in south LA, and you see Serena doing what she did and not showing any contrition, what sort of message is that? That you’re right to abuse the officials if you think you’ve been wronged?

I'm really pleased to see other people don't think SW's sanctions had anything to do with sexism. She behaved appallingly! Spoilt toddler springs to mind. Her argument is ridiculous; unless you can pinpoint that specific umpire allowing a male player get away with behaviour similar to hers, it's a non argument. Just because some umpires don't come down hard enough on players for violations does not mean this umpire - working within his remit - is being sexist by pulling her up.

I'm all for equal rights for us women but when people start using sexism as an excuse for piss poor behaviour it doesn't do any of us any favours

When McEnroe did this so often back in the day also, he was the bad boy of tennis people loved watching and waiting for his meltdowns.

He may have had his fans, but this wasn't unanimous - you're romanticising here.
My parents stopped watching tennis altogether due to McEnroe. He was called the brat. Lots of people hated him and hated his antics.
To suggest that the fact that he had some fans 30+ years ago and that people are criticising SW now as evidence of the double standards is ridiculous.
There are double standards and sexism, but look how many people are supporting SW?
It's simply not a case of men are lauded and women are criticised.

It doesn't surprise me at all to find that

-some people really don't like powerful black women
-some people can't cope with a woman publicly expressing anger
-the sin of expressing anger whilst female is compounded if you happen to be specifically complaining about sexism

It does surprise me a bit to find the position so undefended on a feminist board.

And I'm not suggesting that breaking a racket is a graceful thing to do. I'm suggesting that the extent of public disgust and vitriol is out of all proportion to what a white man would receive if he did the same thing.

Nobody is saying she isn't allowed to express herself. She can do what she wants! But shouting sexism because was penalised for things she genuinely did that were out of turn is ridiculous

The McEnroe incident is pointless too because that was years ago. Expectations have progressed in sport, and rightly so given the fact they're meant to be role models. Has a male tennis player in the last 2 years say, thrown his racket to the ground in temper & the umpire has gone 'there there its okay'?

some people really don't like powerful black women
-some people can't cope with a woman publicly expressing anger
-the sin of expressing anger whilst female is compounded if you happen to be specifically complaining about sexism

What a load of ridiculous hyperbole.

The umpire's actions were neither sexist or racist. Williams was playing a sport- she knows the codes of conduct expected by that sport and she didn't abide by them. A tennis court is not the appropriate location for a display of anger.

www.theguardian.com/media/2018/sep/11/repugnant-racist-news-corp-cartoon-serena-williams-mark-knight

Serena Williams depicted in a crude racist and sexist manner. Osaka depicted as a white woman with blonde hair.

Serena has been putting up with this all her career.