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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

The Guardian on Karen White - finally ...

28 replies

Latinista · 09/09/2018 20:22

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/sep/09/sexual-assaults-in-womens-prison-reignite-debate-over-transgender-inmates-karen-white?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Unbelievable that “previous offending history” was not taken into account. How can there be no sanction over this? It’s a totally unacceptable position. A Prison Services apology and insistence that “the safety of all prisoners must be our absolute priority” is surely inadequate.

OP posts:
Original poster
Latinista · 09/09/2018 20:24

So sorry everyone, how do I make the clicky link? Seems to work OK when I’m part of a link already established but not starting a thread.

OP posts:
Anlaf · 09/09/2018 20:27

If it's the op you need to put round it

Original poster
Latinista · 09/09/2018 20:28

Thank you

OP posts:
tiredandweary · 09/09/2018 20:32

Goodness me. And they haven't tried to excuse the sexual assaults. Amazing. I eagerly wait Owen Jones take on this in his next column Grin

HawkeyeInConfusion · 09/09/2018 20:32

But still not a peep from the BBC.

AngryAttackKittens · 09/09/2018 20:33

Owen's take will presumably be that transphobia made the rapist do it, and also what about all the other transwomen who're not criminals?

LangCleg · 09/09/2018 20:33

Oh, no mention of the paedophilia conviction or that the rapes had occurred in bail hostels and locked psychiatric wards - two more places like prisons where the women are less able to escape. And no comments allowed. Can't have the views of their readers showing, can they?

The Guardian can just fuck off.

AngryAttackKittens · 09/09/2018 20:34

It doesn't exactly reflect confidence that their readership agrees with them that they keep closing comments on trans articles.

WeWantJustice · 09/09/2018 20:47

"It is a very toxic debate, but I think prisons have probably been influenced by some of the extreme conversations and have been bullied into making some decisions that have harmed women and put staff in an extremely difficult position,” she said.

Wait, what? Prisons are being bullied into making inappropriate decisions about where male prisoners should serve their sentences? Really? Do they also get bullied into inappropriate decisions about other prisoners?

If the people who run our prisons are so easily bullied, WTF are they doing running the prison service? If they're such wusses that they can't stand up to delicate, feminine transwomen who only want to be housed with other women because they're scared, how the hell are we supposed to trust that they are able to stand up to hardened hitmen, armed robbers, career criminals who see killing as part of the job description and organised gangsters?

People who are vulnerable to being bullied about where to house prisoners, should not be in positions where they are making those decisions.

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 09/09/2018 20:49

Well it wasn't very good. But they did quote Pilgrim Tucker and Frances Crook and no rape apologists. So maybe 5/10?

LangCleg · 09/09/2018 20:53

But they did quote Pilgrim Tucker and Frances Crook and no rape apologists.

Bet you any money you like that they asked all the anti-woman crowd in their contact books (and that's ALL the anti-woman crowd) for a comment and they all pretended they hadn't seen the email.

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 09/09/2018 20:56

they all pretended they hadn't seen the email

Yeah I was actually thinking that as I typed! Isn't it nice that some bridges are still too far

deepwatersolo · 09/09/2018 20:58

It doesn't exactly reflect confidence that their readership agrees with them that they keep closing comments on trans articles.

To be fair, the Guardian now closes comments on pretty much everything of relevance. I was so annoyed, once, about the inability to post on issues of real importance, I left a comment about Syria under an article about fashion trends. (I am sure it was removed. I never went back to check.)

Italiangreyhound · 09/09/2018 21:35

Will inmates be able to sue prisons over the fact they have put women in danger, knowingly?

SPOFS · 09/09/2018 21:44

Not a bad report! I'm impressed actually.

Although I don't like their pronoun usage. This rapist does not deserve their chosen pronouns. Angry

IAmLurkacus · 09/09/2018 21:49

Couldn’t agree more WeWantJustice WTAF is going on here? Who is running this country? Who’s running the prison service? Do they like wearing nappies? What about the guardian editor? Do they like shitting themselves? Exactly how many members of the establishment ‘dress up’ at the weekend and who is holding the photos?

Wanderabout · 09/09/2018 22:02

But still not a peep from the BBC

The PM programme covered this on Saturday, it was a good in depth look and included Nic Williams from FPFW

TooMuchPenis · 10/09/2018 07:33

Will inmates be able to sue prisons over the fact they have put women in danger, knowingly?

@italiangreyhound I was just going to start a thread about that actually.

RabbitsAreTasty · 10/09/2018 09:14

But still not a peep from the BBC

It was on Radio 4 Today this morning.

LizzieSiddal · 10/09/2018 09:42

But still not a peep from the BBC

The PM programme covered this on Saturday, it was a good in depth look and included Nic Williams from FPFW

I think it was on Friday, although did they maybe repeat on Saturday? It was a brilliant piece!

LizzieSiddal · 10/09/2018 09:42

Rabbits I missed that, was it a discussion or just mentioned in the headlines?

ShackUp · 10/09/2018 09:44

Nick Robinson also brought it up on the Today programme R4 this morning, with a govt minister, in the context of a different topic of conversation. Both Robinson and the minister were baffled at how it could have come to pass.

RabbitsAreTasty · 10/09/2018 10:06

It was a dicussion. It was sensible. But weirdly truncated.

I was disappointed that Nick Robinson didn't push hard on what kind of investigation would be taking place and if anyone has resigned. I found myself feeling like they stopped halfway through to switch to a conversation about Boris/Brexit. I actually wondered if there had been a glitch in the recording playback. Apparently not.

hackmum · 10/09/2018 10:43

To be fair, the Guardian now closes comments on pretty much everything of relevance.

Their policy seems to be to close comments on anything that attracts a large number of hostile comments. So pieces about racism draw in the racists, pieces on transgender issues draw in the, er, transphobes, pieces on anti-Semitism attract the anti-Semites etc. I think moderating those threads probably just takes up too much resource, and if you've got a comments section consisting mainly of "This comment was deleted by a moderator", it doesn't do much for the flow of debate.