are (some) self-defence videos for women a crock of ****

[traceyracer]

Think of the billion-pound dieting industry, so many diets but so many are poor ones devised by someone who wants to exploit people wanting to diet and to make a quick buck.

is it the same with self-defence techniques supposed to help women if attacked by a man?

In this video two MMA guys try out some of these techniques and found that they just won't work against someone who really is going to resistant and who wants to hurt you.

are some of these videos just out to make money and to exploit women's need to feel safe? the danger here is if you learn a bunch of useless techniques that could actually put you in danger if you ever tried to use them.

I recently tried to find some self defence classes. So I rang a club that had SELF DEFENCE in big letters on their sign. He tried to sell me a kung fu lesson as "all martial arts are based in self defence". I had explained what I wanted it for.

What this is coming to is that men don't really believe the danger, they think women are pointlessly scared. That the women who get raped did something wrong. So women don't really need self defence but a few pointless moves will give them confidence to go out and be "fun."

I realise that is a dark way of looking at it but I'm beginning to think it's true. Men (and some women) just have no idea of how big the risks really are.

A couple of my sisters have early-onset osteoporosis. Both have been expected to take self-defence classes because that is the reality of public sector work.

So, the day that there are self-defence classes that are useful for light women, pregnant women, older women, women with arthritis/osteoporosis etc. - yes, that's the day that those classes will be worth the time, effort, money, and rhetoric.

Yes, most self defence classes are more about magical thinking about rape myths than about teaching anything that would disable an assailant. 90% of rapes are committed by men their victim knows, so self defence classes probably aren't going to help in those circumstances. For the other 10% - well, let me put it this way; a friend of mine had done martial arts training for over 15 years and when a man grabbed her in a park and put a broken bottle to her neck, she froze, like most women in that situation would.

I'm not suggesting that women shouldn't do self defence classes, but when female martial artists, soldiers, boxers and rugby players are still raped, I'm just not sure how effective 6 lessons in the community centre will be.

Great video btw.

It’s so obvious even in the original video that the choke hold one wouldn’t work, her knee is nowhere near his stomach. 🙄

DD and I did a class a while back, organised through my running club. It did have some good tips, but one technique simply didn’t work for DD because my reach is greater than hers. Chances of that working on a man, given I’m all of 5’4” and don’t have orangutan arms? About fuck all.

We actually did some self-defence at karate last night - my senior class sensei chucks it in for adults/higher grades from time to time; nearly half the class is female and I'm always grateful for it. What you mostly learn in karate (in the UK and in my experience at least) is "sport karate" - the sort of thing you'll see at the next Olympics. It's all about point scoring, which of course is useless on the street. However, it does make you fit, gives you better situational awareness and reactions, makes you walk taller and helps confidence - and with the right club you get discipline, resilience, camaderie and respect. For that alone I recommend it to anyone, especially teenage girls who may not get respect from teenage boys anywhere else.

In terms of self-defence, karate can be modified to be useful IF you practice the techniques and develop the muscle memory to react, mostly because you'll be fast enough from the conditioning to have the element of surprise against an attacker. A one-off self defence class is pointless, really.

But as sensei - and every other martial arts teacher I've ever had - says, the best defence is not to be there. Which means "run like hell".

Oh, I meant to add - Bas Rutten is worth a watch, he has a great video on bar fights. But even he says run like hell.

I'm not arguing against doing martial arts. I did some when I was younger. But at the early stages especially you really won't learn anything that can be used.

I firmly believe self defence (size appropriate!) should be taught in schools. Judo seems a goid startong point - use their size against them. And yes, make clear running is an option!

Martial arts Is an amazing oppertuinuty to learn self defence. Just a short self defence class really doesn’t cut the mustard of a big bloke is really trying to hurt you.

Dd2 is starting Brazilian Ju Jitsu and it’s brilliant.

I’d never watch a self defence vid on line

I briefly dabbled in Tae Kwondo, and our instructor was really sensible on this subject.

Lesson 1 of new term
Instructor to class: What do you think would happen if some nutter in the street came up to me and swung a punch at my nose?

Various more experienced male students: "you could use such and such a block" "try to parry it with so and so", "do a roundhouse kick and send him flying", "yadda yadda yadda" (room begins to smell noticeably of testosterone).

Instructor: No, I'd end up with a broken nose, same as you lot, because I wouldn't have seen it coming. (Testosterone oozes away under the door, looking disappointed). Right then, those of you here hoping to learn self defence - your best approach is to run like shit if you can...

DD went to Krav Maga classes. They were brilliant - ex Israeli army stuff. She now volunteers for security at feminist meetings and marches. The whole emphasis is on disabling the attacker sufficiently for you to run away.
They had to practise the moves in realistic settings too, and when they were physically exhausted or cold and stiff - as the instructor pointed out, an attacker goes for you when you’re most vulnerable, and you need to be able to react in all circumstances. DD was thrilled to be able to floor attackers twice her size - it gave her great confidence when out and about.
I just have to be careful not to come up behind her for any surprise hugs - she reacts automatically and very effectively!

I habe to admit i would exclude Krav Maga from the list. Would live to learn it.

Bit off topic but did you know the Suffragettes had a team of bodyguard women who learnt in order to protect others on demonstrations?

Chances of that working on a man, given I’m all of 5’4” and don’t have orangutan arms? About fuck all.

This is it - I'm 5' DP is just over 6' - he could literally do that thing from a cartoon where they hold your head as you punch towards them and just hit air.

I couldn't knee his junk, let alone his stomach - it's my waist height! Even eye poking, my arm would be outstretched so not at any sensible strength.

Run like hell is the best advice. If we we could get into a crowd, I can be more manouverable (although he'd just be barrelling people out of the way)

Chances of that working on a man, given I’m all of 5’4” and don’t have orangutan arms? About fuck all.

This is it - I'm 5' DP is just over 6' - he could literally do that thing from a cartoon where they hold your head as you punch towards them and just hit air.

I couldn't knee his junk, let alone his stomach - it's my waist height! Even eye poking, my arm would be outstretched so not at any sensible strength.

Run like hell is the best advice. If we we could get into a crowd, I can be more manouverable (although he'd just be barrelling people out of the way)

ooh a double.. sorry!

The Suffragettes learned Bartitsu: <a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?q=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartitsu&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiX89XA66bdAhVJnRoKHe0EAa0QFjADegQICRAC&usg=AOvVaw2drnjX22_HWtXrsVR7CAt1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?q=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartitsu&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiX89XA66bdAhVJnRoKHe0EAa0QFjADegQICRAC&usg=AOvVaw2drnjX22_HWtXrsVR7CAt1

I have a book on it. I love the idea of self-defence parasols Again, though, it's the elements of practice and surprise that made them successful - no-one would have expected them to fight back.

This is a slight tangent to the OP but it's increasingly annoyed me for a while how film and TV unrealistically portrays women fighting men.

I realise a lot of these shows are unrealistic full stop but even so there seems to be a prevailing narrative that a woman who is a trained fighter can take on a man twice her size, not just any man but men who are themselves trained fighters.

The 100 is one of the shows that immediately springs to mind. Good show in other ways but I found myself rolling my eyes a lot when a skinny 5ft girl takes on the equivalent of The Rock and wins. I get the feeling it's meant to be empowering but I'm not sure it's that helpful a narrative.

Great video OP.

I did jujitsu as a teenager and what became clear to me very quickly was that any of the men in the class could very easily overpower me with sheer weight and muscle regardless of what moves I tired. To solve this issue the leader just always paired me up with the only other girl in the class. It meant I got to win sometimes but utterly useless in terms of actual self defence against a real attacker.

I can recommend aikido. Definitely works in self defence against men once you get to the higher grades, as long as you keep your head in a crisis (which they do try to train you to do). Krav Maga is supposed to be one developed by the Israeli defence forces and may be worth looking at.

I am surprised that anyone would expect to 'pick up a few tips from videos' though. It takes practice and work. I have seen one-off sessions and cringe every time.

I also did ju jitsu and thought it was obviously useless against the full strength of a man.

That said, you do have every chance of being attacked by a violent woman. There are plenty of them.

That said, you do have every chance of being attacked by a violent woman.

Please!

FanWithoutAGuard - in Krav Maga you would learn how to elbow/punch him in the junk, then when he bends over doubled in pain you smash him in the face!

I bloody loved Krav Maga - it did feel like the things we learned would be useful in the real world (although I draw the line at going in closer to someone with a machete, as we had to do in one lesson!). If you did it regularly the moves would become second nature and the emphasis is always on getting away from a fight, whether through kicking, punching, biting etc. It’s brutal. Came out with many a fat lip and bruises all over!

Sadly being a bit unfit I’ve had to give it a rest for while as I injured my ankle, so although anyone CAN learn it, you do need to be reasonably fit to do it well.

I agree Ova, no way would Octavia be winning. Even if she was the same size, while talented she has only been fighting for a few years and they begin in childhood. In fact last season the winning tactics were to let everyone else fight while she hid they attack the injured winner! One of the things putting me off this season.

《Returns thread to track》

Sorry!

And our classes were mixed women, men and kids - some of the men would be cowering in the corner while a 12 year old girl was kicking the crap out of them - obviously in real life they’d be more likely to fight back, but even with groin guards on, they were on the defensive as soon as the victim started to retaliate!

MyRelationshipIsWeird wrote: I’ve had to give it a rest for while as I injured my ankle, so although anyone CAN learn it, you do need to be reasonably fit to do it well.

I was wondering about recommending Krav Maga to my sisters. But, it has to be said, I do wonder at what point they'd be fracturing their own ankles/wrists, spraining and straining stuff.