are (some) self-defence videos for women a crock of ****

[traceyracer]

Think of the billion-pound dieting industry, so many diets but so many are poor ones devised by someone who wants to exploit people wanting to diet and to make a quick buck.

is it the same with self-defence techniques supposed to help women if attacked by a man?

In this video two MMA guys try out some of these techniques and found that they just won't work against someone who really is going to resistant and who wants to hurt you.

are some of these videos just out to make money and to exploit women's need to feel safe? the danger here is if you learn a bunch of useless techniques that could actually put you in danger if you ever tried to use them.

Having said what I said - I remembered OutsSelf was a strong proponent of the idea that actually, if you knew what you were doing, the size difference wasn't as big an issue as we thought :

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2079300-Can-we-talk-about-female-violence-I-need-to-get-my-response-straight?messages=100&pg=1

She's down at Thu 15-May-14 00:09:40 - I'm pretty sure she did some more posts on the topic, but that's the first one I remember/could find

so how about carrying weapons? two big problems there 1. carrying a weapon is illegal here in the UK (2 years for carrying a knife) and 2. an attacker (who may not be armed himself) could actually disarm you and use your own weapon against yourself causing you even greater injury.

Totally agree with your points about situational awareness (a bit part of krav maga). Also agree with people saying that untrained people shouldn't carry weapons - I trained in kali for four years and have done a lot of full contact knife/stick sparring in full protective gear.

'Weapons' are illegal but many things can serve as an impromptu one. As a woman I'd probs look at something like a metal comb with sharp teeth. In the instance that you can't escape (always best option) you could easily open somebody's face up/take an eye out with a sharp comb.

Statistically, the longer you take to react the greater the chance of serious injury so we were told to either react quickly and brutally, using element of surprise, or run - pre emptive strikes are I believe permissible in the instance of imminent attack (you don't have to wait until a seemingly violent person actually hits you.

One of my instructors advocated asking a question before you strike as people ate generally slower to react when thinking - if somebody has aggressively approached him or asked for his wallet he would say "you fucked my dog?" and then instantly hit them while they were processing the confusing statement.

@IfIWasABirdIdFlyIn2ACeilingFan

No wonder you are arguing with your own agenda colouring it and adding in things I didn't say. I said you have every chance of being attacked by a woman, not you have as much chance of being attacked by a woman as a man.

What are you in about? Arguing with my own agenda?

We were talking about being attacked by men and then you said we have every chance of being attacked by a woman. Of course that sounds like you’re saying we’re just as likely to be attacked by a woman! Im not the only poster to have understood it that way. Maybe choose your words better in future.

@IfIWasABirdIdFlyIn2ACeilingFan

No, you made that up in your head and argued with me about it. Now you are trying to blame me for your mistake. Bit childish, TBH

And the other poster made it up too I suppose?

Do you always find it this difficult to admit when you've made a mistake?

I echo the previous poster mentioning that in martial arts classes the advice I have heard repeated is if you can run away.

I think such classes have great value but not primarily as self defence.

Confidence and fitness can influence the way you present yourself which in itself can deter a potential attacker so I have encouraged my kids for example to do martial arts. That doesn't really translate to someone who has restricted fitness though.

I’ll make you a deal djnoun you admit your wording wasn’t clear and i’ll admit I misinterpreted it. How does that sound? Deal? No deal? You’ve got the power

AllDayBreakfast pockets, man Loads of women's clothes don't have pockets even for a comb. Not so bad in winter, but in your swirly summer dress or skinny jeans, nope. That's why rape alarms are useless, they get stuck in bags and are too much faff (not to mention nobody reacts to alarms any more). Plus, how far does the definition of "going equipped" stretch these days? I mean, I've openly carried fencing foils through train stations back in the 90s but now? You'd probably get done for knitting needles.

I don't know about pre-emptive strikes - I have been taught to assume a "ready stance" but with my palms facing the aggressor. It's quicker for a wrist grab or certain other blocks, but mostly because it looks much more defensive, both to the attacker and on CCTV. I do love the derailing technique - Darren Brown talks about it in one of his books and has used it successfully. I think he said something like "the wall outside my house is three feet tall" and legged it while the guy's brain tried to process. Relies on you having situational awareness and not being surprised, though.

Much of this - blocks, impromptu weapons, all that - assumes you're being attacked facing head on, though. More likely to be of use in the home against DV, or in a bar, which means you've often not much space to work in. Chances are a predatory man jumping a woman is going to grab her from behind and either drag into a vehicle/hidden area or go down to the ground, so something that specialises in grappling - judo or wrestling - is more likely to be useful than a fast-strike technique like karate.

@IfIWasABirdIdFlyIn2ACeilingFan

Your continued investment in this is getting bizarre.

No, I didn't say what you thought I said. You can see that for yourself, surely?

Oh, I see you’ve chosen the no deal option. Ah well. I guess we’re done here. Your post was open to misinterpretation. You don’t have to admit that for it to be true.

Also not sure what you mean by my continued investment. you're the one who keeps digging at me!

Weird.

Yes, you have been.

Exactly Silent unless women are going to be allowed to wander around brandishing their weapon of choice, then merely carrying one is another form of magical thinking. It might give you confidence, but, should the worst happen, it's not going to be of any use. There is also the problem of carrying an offensive weapon of any kind, which is an offence. Finally, you would have to be able to justify the proportionality of your response if you're going to rely on a self defence reason for carrying. What this would mean in effect, is that an assailant would have already had to start attacking you for you to be able to justify using your weapon on them. That said, I don't know many women who don't feel the need to walk after dark with their keys laced between their fingers, but again, running like fuck away is by far your better option.

If you want to learn how to fight men, you need to train with men, at a real boxing gym or similar. It's intimidating, and fucking hard work, but you'll burn ten times more calories than in zumba or boxercise and improve your strength and reflexes.

As far as weapons go, aerosols are quite good! Hairspray to the eyes, gives you time to run while they're blinded. Spray paint even better - your attacker is now marked.

And most male attackers won't be professional fighters. They might be strong, but if you are faster and smarter than them then women can definitely get the upper hand, even if that just means getting that kick to the nuts in so you can escape.

I used to do Krav Maga and would love to go back and resume my training. It was exhausting but brutal and practical and it dealt with situations that felt realistic- such as how to throw an attacker off you if you are lying down or breaking a choke hold or a headlock. I was one of the only women in my class so I had plenty of opportunity to spar with men that were much bigger and heavier than me.

My advice to women if you have no choice but to fight and are able to- fight dirty, fight fast, and then run for it as soon as they're disabled.

Obviously, no woman should carry illegal offensive weapons.

As I understand it, rape alarms are legal.
www.askthe.police.uk/Content/Q589.htm
I can't see any Self Defence for Women courses run by british police, but there seems to be several run by US police.

There's a series of detective books by Harry Bingham where the (rather weird) detective Fiona Griffiths does Krav Maga. From what people here have said it's fairly realistic - doesn't always work, concentrates on bad situations and how to escape them.

I got to green belt in Taekwondo before injuring my knee (and had to quit), but I was under no illusions that it would help against a real attacker. However, I did feel stronger and fitter, and I believe it led me to carry myself more confidently, too. Now I want to try Krav Maga!

My daughter and I are starting a Krav Maga class together next week. I hadn't actually heard of it until she mentioned it to me, I was only going along with her for moral support. Am actually looking forward to it now. Glad to hear that PPs consider it to be a useful skill to learn.

Raises hand as another women looking at her timetable and wondering where/when I might commit to Krav Maga classes.

So now the challenge is how to get Krav Maga classes all round the country.