are (some) self-defence videos for women a crock of ****

[traceyracer]

Think of the billion-pound dieting industry, so many diets but so many are poor ones devised by someone who wants to exploit people wanting to diet and to make a quick buck.

is it the same with self-defence techniques supposed to help women if attacked by a man?

In this video two MMA guys try out some of these techniques and found that they just won't work against someone who really is going to resistant and who wants to hurt you.

are some of these videos just out to make money and to exploit women's need to feel safe? the danger here is if you learn a bunch of useless techniques that could actually put you in danger if you ever tried to use them.

My job requires me to be trained in self defence. I am confident about my training because:

• I use the skills regularly
• I have to practice regularly
• I am tested annually - to ensure that my techniques are correct, safe and effective

-I know what works for me and when

Having said that, I invariably talk my way out of a tight spot or calm the would-be assailant with my body language, tone of voice and words.

If you don't use the skills, you lose them. That is the problem with self-defence courses, especially ones where one-size-fits-all.

^^ Those sisters both have osteoporosis and a number of recent fractures etc.

Would this be a good one to have moved to exercise? It is too important an issue to be hidden away.

One of the most important things we teach in unarmed defensive tactic is what you can and cannot do and how to know the difference.

I agree that much of what is on offer is ineffective for women.
However, the confidence that comes from practicing effective tactics really will change your life.

@IfIWasABirdIdFlyIn2ACeilingFan

A woman tried to throw me over the bonnet of my car only last month, thanks. I've also been punched and sexually assaulted by women, so yes it absolutely happens.

thebewilderness I agree. It's also a mindset. How you walk, how you carry yourself, awareness, as people have said. They used to teach posture and stance in 'assertiveness for women' classes. Even that can be a useful strategy, it's used against us all the time.

It's not self defence, but I went to a boxing class. Was worried I was too old. The tutor said.:"Don't give me numbers, put on the gloves." It was brilliant.

Djnoun, I'm very sorry to hear about your experiences (and having been to an all-girls school yes, women and girls do commit assault).

However, at a population level - which is what we're talking about on this thread, it remains the case that:

1. 90% of prisoners incarcerated for violent offences are men;
2. 98% of prisoners incarcerated for sexual offences are men;
3. Men are on average stronger than women, taller than women, and on a number of measures (grip strength and dead lift for example) not only are men on average stronger, but there's next to no overlap between the two distributions.

As a woman one is very much more likely to be attacked by a man than by a woman, and, if attacked by a man, they are physically capable of doing a lot more damage and one is less likely to be able to fight back effectively.

A woman tried to throw me over the bonnet of my car only last month, thanks. I've also been punched and sexually assaulted by women, so yes it absolutely happens.

Of course it happens. My disagreement is not that it happens but that I have every chance of being attacked by a woman as I do a man. That is simply not true.

I trained in krav maga for several years and can attest to it being good. I still think sport/competition focused arts (western/thai boxing, Brazilian jujitsu etc) work best for men as they usually involve a lot of sparring and toughen you up.

But for women dirty fighting is the best defence - thumb rammed deep into eye socket, punch to throat, knee to balls (or grab and wrench). If I were female I'd probably carry some manner of covert weapon tbh.

After ten years of jiu jitsu (Japanese traditional not Brazilian which is more of a sport) I think I had enough understanding and technique to defend myself from some untrained inexperienced attackers.
Big blokes who can punch however would just knock me senseless before I knew what was happening.

Re women fighting men on tv and films - these women iften seem to be about the same height as the men, around 5'10" or 6'. Fairly unrealistic!

Krav Maga techniques for women.
www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/self-defence-women-five-krav-maga-moves-techniques-attack-israel-defence-force-idf-a7542231.html
metro.co.uk/2013/10/28/krav-maga-why-women-are-taking-on-the-brutal-israeli-army-self-defence-technique-4161580/

If I were female I'd probably carry some manner of covert weapon
When I was at college in the 1980s women were issued with rape alarms.

Yeah I would worry about someone with osteoporosis doing the type of training we did. I would often end up on the floor, even trying not to actually hurt someone you inevitably kick a bit too hard or bang into a wall. I’m sure there is protective gear that could help and maybe if your sisters trained together they would be more aware of how hard they could be with each other? (the 12 yo girl I mentioned earlier was notorious for being very feisty - one lesson she ripped two peoples t shirts and then knocked me over - hence the sprain

when it comes to self-defence for women, the harsh reality is that men are just so much stronger and getting techniques just right in the heat of a fight just isn't likely

so how about carrying weapons? two big problems there 1. carrying a weapon is illegal here in the UK (2 years for carrying a knife) and 2. an attacker (who may not be armed himself) could actually disarm you and use your own weapon against yourself causing you even greater injury

perhaps the best self-defence for women who don't want to attend classes would be things like situational awareness (being really observational, knowing who is around you and discreetly looking at their body language etc) and looking confident even if you are not. things like that? of course that could be extended further by saying things like don't drink alcohol or go out after dark but then that's into victim-blaming territory so there has to be a reasonable balance.

just throwing this out here but perhaps we could come up with a mumsnet-approved self-defence article or video? what do you think?

Just throwing this out here but perhaps we could come up with a mumsnet-approved self-defence article or video
Anything would be good, if it helps us get fit, strong and confident.
I certainly think if this thread was moved to exercise, we'd get some good pointers. This used to be a key element of feminist education.

The best form of self defence is to have good situational awareness, which can be trained into people, I trained enough people in this to know that for sure. And secondly to be able to run like fuck while screaming at the top of your lungs. Carrying a weapon is just stupid, for the reasons the OP outlined above and because, when it comes down to it, and you're pissing yourself in fear, there's no guarantee you'll use it correctly, or even well enough to disable an attacker.

Agreed. Melanippe can you elaborate more on situational awareness techniques - any references, books, vids, courses?

Carrying a weapon with no training is ridiculous, not to mention illegal. Take it from me, knife fighting is REALLY hard - I've swung everything from a broadsword to a pike, and daggers were the most difficult weapon to handle. Even so-called "dirty fighting" shouldn't be relied on - it's very hard to poke someone in the eye if they're a foot taller, four stone heavier and swinging a drunk roundhouse at you.

Have a watch of Bas Rutten - this is a chopped down version of a much longer programme where he demonstrates some great techniques, but the vast majority of it depends on him being quick and strong. I did learn one of the arm-bars in this last night and I think if I practice it a lot it would be really effective in the right situation. m.youtube.com/watch?v=mosX7L25HV8#

I think my greatest disadvantage, besides female v male size, weight, reach, muscle and bone density

Agree re: martial arts, did a women's self defence course but learnt far more from sparring with blokes at Karate class and fending off attacks in Krav Maga - which is excellent. Also get more of a sense of what an attacker feels like in terms of force, nothing better for confidence than flooring a huge, tall bloke when you're a not very tall woman, which learned to do in Krav Maga very easily. As well as learning how to dodge blows, size up a situation, Karate taught me better to work out an exit strategy where possible. Also learnt in some situations fighting back doesn't work.

Think videos not that useful, tried before and really better to engage with men in controlled fight situations, less likely to freeze up in real life once you've been through attack scenarios. Most men in Krav Maga, for instance, not so much Karate, were very forceful some scarily so, and we worked on strangling and other scenarios.

I read somewhere once that shouting "Help" is pretty useless as people often ignore it. Shouting "Fire" gets peoples' attention as being nosey are more likely to investigate.

I have down some self defence classes but it’s impossible to apply to read world situations. Mainly being scared shitless.
Talking to my neighbour (at volume and colourful language, about his constant pot smoking) I definitely had the weight advantage, have a confident non aggressive but solid posture and manner. Then he picked up my cat that happened to trot past. Game over. I submitted. That’s what it comes down to. What will you do to preserve your life, life of your child? It’s a hell of a gamble to take that an attacker won’t kill you.

I looked up kava maga. Found one place near me that does it. They closed down.

MipMipMip you could try Judo, a friend did a course that was set up specifically for gay and lesbian groups because of a spate of homophobic attacks, so clearly it's a useful form for dealing with street violence, she learnt some excellent strategies, which were centred on breaking free from and deflecting attackers. She did break a toe in the process though.

I think that it's very difficult though because it's clear that some attackers are chancing their arm, and will be put off by even a show of resistance, and others may become more violent when resisted. So sizing up situations and strategies for breaking free of attacks are probably the most useful.