'Momentum' video on transgenderism

[snugglybeans]

Was shocked to see this come up on my newsfeed.

The bit where they say: "Your children will definitely have trans friends, they might even be trans themselves" sent shivers down my spine.

Are we supposed to just accept this as inevitable?

It's from Corbyn's main supporters' group I think.

www.facebook.com/PeoplesMomentum/videos/1934599106834234/
MNHQ has edited this OP slightly to correct a mistake where non-preferred prounouns were used**

One of the things I find instructive is the 'realizing I was trans' narrative.

If someone is gay, they 'realize' it because they find themselves sexually and romantically attracted to members of the same sex. It's as simple as that.

But how many people have this narrative that they didn't know they were trans until they saw YouTube videos about it etc?

Being gay is not a learned behaviour. Identifying as trans because you are a biological female but like short hair, shopping in the men's section and feel self conscious about your breasts and are told these things are trans indicators is a learned behaviour.

Don't judge or make them feel unwelcome then. Offering biscuits and pop doesn't require a pronoun check.

'Not making someone uncomfortable' is a great ambition.

If however the way to make them fully included and comfortable is to stamp out the rights and identities of other groups, something has got extremely fucked up somewhere and any sane person needs to do some critical thinking.

It is perfectly possible to be inclusive, welcoming and accepting of transgender people (and indeed transsexual people, who have been around a whole lot longer and are one of the groups being stamped out) without defending shit like 'gay people are trans people in denial'.

People knew they were trans long before YouTube etc came along. I'm not for or against it, but I respect their right to live their life as they see fit, and will raise my children the same.

Definitely have trans friends? I don't think so unless trans now means anyone who is gay.

What is going on in Labour?

I agree with MyDoctor about trying not to be prejudiced. I totally see the dangers in the self id element, but so many posters on on here seem to be generally uncivil towards trans individuals. I understand it's just 'collateral damage' in the wider debate but it still makes me feel uncomfortable.

For goodness sakes, pointing out anti gay sentiment and how wrong it is is not prejudice!!!!

And I find your arguing to just accept Juno's bullshit extremely uncivil to LGB people and making ME as a lesbian feel deeply unwelcome.

MyDoctor, that's nice. I'll raise my kids to respect and protect their boundaries and those of others and we'll all be golden. And we'll hopefully not vote for people who think gay people are trans people in denial, because that is pretty gross, really.

They are making false equivalencies between transgender ideology, and homosexuality. Transgender ideology involves people forcing others to pretend they are something they are not, and can involve changing ones body through hormones and/or surgery in order to appear as something one is not. Enacting laws that permit males to legally become women allows men to access female spaces and programs set-up to address sex based inequality, and so it clearly negatively impacts female’s rights. Teaching transgender ideology in schools encourages children to think there is something wrong with their bodies if they do not follow sex role stereotypes and so is harmful to children. Homosexuality, in contrast, is not an ideology and does not require anyone pretending anything, it does not involve changing anything about oneself, enacting laws to make homosexuality legal does not negatively impact on anyone else’s rights. Neither does teaching homosexuality in schools make children think there is something wrong with their bodies that needs changing.

The video makes this false equivalency in order to add weight to the “moral panic” argument it is clearly using here. They are saying ‘there is nothing to worry about here, it is just people panicking about nothing’. They are trying to frame our objections to this ideology and the proposed changes in law as just a fuss over nothing, which they are claiming the media has whipped up. In other words they are saying it is a “moral panic”.

I find it deeply homophobic and manipulative.

Yes that's true Floral.

People don't suddenly realise that being gay is a thing because they read about it or heard about it from someone. They already knew, because they already knew they were attracted to people of the same sex.

It's true that trans people often say they read this, or saw that and that was when they realised they were trans.

People knew they were trans long before YouTube etc came along.

Do you mean that a very small number of people had gender dysphoria (ie. Severe discomfort with their sexed body) before? Because yes, that is probably true. But many trans people say they read about it etc and that's when they realised. Eg. Alex Drummond in this video:

I think what Alex is saying he had been 'struggling' with here isn't gender dysphoria (he hasn't had any surgery or anything like that I don't believe) but that he liked certain things that were normally associated with women. That doesn't make him trans, that makes him someone who likes things normally associated with women!

Being homosexual doesn't involve body mutaliation or hormones, or anyone without ethics who might profit financially from pushing this on vulnerable individuals under duress or through manipulation

We should ignore the co-morbity of disability and being trans - because this is irrelevant and does raise any serious questions

We should also ignore the co-morbity of mental health issues and being trans - cos this is really helpful for the wellbeing of trans people themselves

We should ignore trans advocates who sound suspiciously like they want to 'trans away the gay'

Cos yeah it's just like 20 years ago and homophobia. Exactly like it.

If you have you eyes closed and your mind so open that your brain is covering the pavement.

I knew that link wouldn't work - it's the Alex. Drummond 'Patchwork' video where he says 'women are allowed to fix cars too' 🙄

Yes, I think what I find so offensive about co opting the history of gay 'moral panic' is the manipulative element of people who hold homophobic views like Juno using gay people as a prop. I see the same thing in a number of Mermaids parent/child interviews - the religious parent had an issue with the gay thing, but then the child discovered they were actually trans and everything in the garden became rosy again. It's quite ugly.

If however the way to make them fully included and comfortable is to stamp out the rights and identities of other groups, something has got extremely fucked up somewhere and any sane person needs to do some critical thinking.

This this this. And it is what is being expected. It's not at all a reasonable expectation.

Whether it's learned behaviour or not, they exist, so we have to accommodate them. There's bound to be some friction, like after desegregation in America, but it will pass over time. I could be wrong of course, it's just my worldview. Do unto others etc.

Well, if Momentum manage to piss off the LGBs with this - especially the Gs - it might turn out to be a good thing

There's bound to be some friction, like after desegregation in America

ODFOD.

Then I hope to goodness your children aren't gay and never bring a gay friend home. Your denial is ridiculous.

I’m a Momentum member (and an elected officer in my area).

I will be asking questions about democracy in relation to this position. I certainly haven’t voted.,.

I think this video also deserves the comment:

'Interesting timing'

How come my children will 'definitely have trans friends', yet I have no trans friends, haven't taught any trans children, or worked with any trans people? Where were they before now?

Who is the target audience?

Disgruntled Greens?

There's bound to be some friction, like after desegregation in America

Hang on, are you comparing the end of sex segregated spaces and allowing any man to 'self id' as a woman to the desegregation of black and white people in public spaces? Whaaaaaaaaat?