Unisex school toilets- daughter refusing to use them

[PerverseConverse]

My eldest has just started at secondary school. The school Facebook group for the school is awash with angry parents saying that they did not know the toilets were unisex. Older parents are saying it's a new thing for this year. I've spoken to my daughter and she says she refuses to use the toilets at school because of this. She can't go 7 hours without a wee and holding it can lead to urinary tract infections. What's the best way to deal with this with the school?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-36527681

Teens and porn.

Ask to see the school's risk assessment. (bet they won't have one)
Look at their exclusion and bullying statistics (in the Governor's report) and look at how many exclusions for sexual offences? What are their policies / data on sexual harassment?
If there are some / many incldents, ask how mixed sex toilets will reduce the risk?
Make them do a risk assessment and publish it.
Ask if and how they consulted pupils and parents.
Also ask if they have done an equality impact assessment, (they won't have). I can guarantee that schools with a significant Muslim / Jewish intake won't be considering mixed sex facilities. Yet most schools have pupils of faith - and religion is also a protected characteristic. So the school is actively withdrawing the right to privacy, safety and dignity from girls and faith groups. And

THE LAW SAYS THAT SCHOOLS MUST HAVE SEX SEGREGATED TOILETS / WASHING FACILITIES FOR PUPILS AGED 8 AND OVER .

Sorry for shouting ... link to guidance about this upthread.

Lots of schools here are moving to open plan unisex cubicles off the corridor, opening to a general sink area. Supposed to reduce bullying. Seems pretty common set up. I wouldn't have liked it much but wouldn't have had a choice. If there's been basins in the cubicles, and frequent cleaning, it might have been ok. Don't know what they're like now in terms of cleanliness. Lots of children now complain school toilets are filthy, no loo roll, no loo seats, no locks, no soap, no towels, so presumably these ones off the corridors must be better as the problems are more visible.

I can see why gaps are needed from a health & safety point of view. Don't schools ban pupils from bringing in smartphones, or make them hand into reception on the way in?

Even prisons can;t keep smartphones out. Schools have no chance.

Besides, the dude in the post above used a mirror.

Don't schools ban pupils from bringing in smartphones, or make them hand into reception on the way in?

No - they aren't allowed out in lesson unless they are told they can use them.

DD1 has had lessons when they've need them for cameras, calculators or been told to down load free app for something they are doing - music and DT.

A lot of homework diaries are apps now.

They are toilets with gaps at the bottom.
And just to be completely clear, they don't have a sink inside?

I don't think there is any evidence that unisex toilets reduce bullying, rather the opposite. It's just an assumption based on nothing at all (except possibly that the girls will somehow "moderate" bullying boys' behaviour against other boys, but why the jeff should they?)

DC school doesn't have homework app - though they do have app has timetable on - they have two week timetable so is more useful than you'd think and other school information.

OP tell your DD to be a good little woman and put her feelings aside for the benefit of others.

No seriously this is awful. There is a lot of sexual harassment type bullying in secondary schools and I wouldn't have used a unisex toilet unless it was a single self contained room with sink.

Are girls supposed to stay off when they are having their periods? Very progressive

What tiredandweary said. If they're going to introduce these ludicrous policies, make them do the work. If they do the work, they'll change them tout de suite, I promise you.

I don't think there is any evidence that unisex toilets reduce bullying

I assumed school though bullying was reduced as it's open to the corridor in my DC school no doors.

Plus they are indoor areas for each year which that year’s classroom come off. They do move round for subjects needing special equipment but main rooms open into one area – if you have one adult stood by door to main corridor they can also see straight into that year’s loos and entire year area. (DH said it reminded him of a prison layout)

We have unisex toilets at our local cinema. I love them. No queue out the door for the women’s and zipping in and out for them men. Men have to queue as well but all in all the line goes quicker than for a women’s single sex.

They do have full lengths doors with washbasin and dryer in each cubicle. Weirdly, and I can never figure this out, they also have central basins outside in the middle. Why this is needed ??

Personally I don’t mind unisex and shared basins but I’ve never come out of the toilet with hands covered in blood or flooding etc, maybe if this occurred I WOULD be hesitant about shared facilities. Personally if I saw another woman come out with her hands looking like she’d gutted a fish I would be a bit perplexed. I once saw a woman come out and wash out a cup. One would think in the toilet cubicle with a bottle of water is more appropriate but seemingly not.

Basins outside the cubicles makes sense too, though, as sometimes you just pop to wash your hands or whatever. You don't need to take up a cubicle for that and make the queue longer.

If there's a teacher or such like monitoring the toilets during breaks, I wouldn't have an issue with it. Pupils will take mucky photos whenever the opportunity arises. Hopefully schools communicate to pupils & parents the reasoning behind unisex toilets so it doesn't seem like it's being imposed without due consideration.

Unfortunately, MyDoctor, that's something they should do before implementation (and they are legally obliged to do assessments).

The fact is, from what the OP says, they have done it without "due consideration" or consultation.

We have unisex toilets at our local cinema. I love them

I used to love changing villages. I have boy and two girls and knew three - one in old town - two in current city - no gaps floor to top doors. Perfect made life much easier.

Then we went to premier sport place in our city - and it was awful. Huge gaps at top and bottom of doors and huge gaps between sides. My DC didn't want to use them - they did as I was there, event they wanted was booked and it was quiet.

I did notice most adults - given time of day mainly retired people getting changed in the segregated male/female seperate roomed loos.

The older two even when it hosts thing there they’d like to do don’t want to go there in future - one teenager and one very near teenage years and I can't say I'd want to use that changing village again either.

Following this with interest as my daughter's school has just introduced toilets with an open area - boys one side, girls the other. Apparently this has been done to reduce vandalism. My daughter and her friends find the whole idea unpleasant as the smell from the boys toilets was always overwhelmingly bad

This doesn't affect my daughter directly as the 6th form has their own facilities but I am surprised that there hasn't been any announcement/explanation from the school.

Dh is a school governor and the Head has really got the bit between their teeth re gender neutral toilets. Dh says the teachers on the governing body are very woke and brook no dissent. Most of the governors are rather ill informed and don't know anything about the controversies surrounding "gender" at the moment.

Dd says she simply wouldn't go to the loo at school if there were boys in them. Schools are not adult workplaces, teenagers en masse can be prone to bad behaviour and I can see that policing unisex toilets would be a constant headache for teachers. (Or perhaps policing toilets is against some pupils' rights? )

Dh is a school governor and the Head has really got the bit between their teeth re gender neutral toilets. Dh says the teachers on the governing body are very woke and brook no dissent. Most of the governors are rather ill informed and don't know anything about the controversies surrounding "gender" at the moment.

And presumably don't understand that unisex toilets are illegal in schools? Someone already linked to this, but your DH just needs to send this to the head:

womansplaceuk.org/gender-neutral-toilets-dont-work-for-women-2/

Are they really illegal? The legislation states boys & girls should have separate toilets "except where the toilet facility is provided in a room that can be secured from the inside and that is intended for use by one pupil at a time."

I wonder if the teachers have mixed sex toilets. If they do I imagine they would be cleaner/less stinky than the main toilets.
If the teachers have female loos maybe the girls could start asking to use them.

This from the school:
"We have also been able to renovate the student toilets for the first time in over ten years. The toilets are now open to all and are much brighter. They are bright and spacious and are supervised by a Facilities Attendant throughout the day. The toilets were previously cramped and unfortunately on occasions were subject to vandalism. The new layout lends itself to students feeling safer, knowing that they are supervised and will make subversive vandalism a thing of the past. We are waiting for the signage to arrive to designate the individual cubicles but we know that some students have been concerned about this and so we have put temporary signs on the cubicles today."

Apparently the cubicles ARE floor to ceiling but I'm still not happy.

MyDoctor
The most recent guidance from the DfE about 'Gender Separation" (June 2018) states the following:
"It is permissible for toilet and boarding accommodation facilities to be separate as they are captured under existing statutory exceptions. Separate toilet and washing facilities must be provided for boys and girls aged 8 years and over pursuant to Regulation 4 of the School Premises (England) Regulations 2012, which falls within
the exemption provided for in Schedule 22 of the Equality Act 2010".

The wording says existing statutory exceptions and must. Reckon that's as clear as it could be.

PerverseConverse

Suggest that you ask how these changes comply with the legislation quoted above and ask about equality impact assessments in terms of the protected characteristics of sex and religion.