Unisex school toilets- daughter refusing to use them

[PerverseConverse]

My eldest has just started at secondary school. The school Facebook group for the school is awash with angry parents saying that they did not know the toilets were unisex. Older parents are saying it's a new thing for this year. I've spoken to my daughter and she says she refuses to use the toilets at school because of this. She can't go 7 hours without a wee and holding it can lead to urinary tract infections. What's the best way to deal with this with the school?

Interesting piece on this very subject on the WPUK website:

womansplaceuk.org/gender-neutral-toilets-dont-work-for-women-2/

This should be helpful

www.transgendertrend.com/gra-consultation/

That so many schools are academies doesn't help. If parents could still stand as councillors, through LEAs their voices would be heard more clearly. Many academies have a rather opaque approach to financial probity which might make them vulnerable to bungs from the trans industry.

Given the current issues, schools should have a small number
of gender neutral / mixed sex toilets to accommodate trans identified pupils.
The guidance I linked to about 'Gender separation in mixed schools' has only recently been published. It is interesting that the toilets /changing room issue was included in it - but it's very clear.
It's also worth asking schools whether they have consulted all students (nit just a few) about this? They won't have - few teenagers want to share toilets and changing rooms - they're all going through puberty fgs! In the days of 'pupil voice' this lack of consultation is a real issue.

The lunatics have taken over, who is it making these decisions?.
I think the best way to get action is for the children to go on strike.
Schools should be safe places, not a place for PC prats to impose there changes.
Walk out till the toilets are returned to separate male and female use.

If they reduce bullying, and the cubicles are floor to ceiling, I wouldn't have an issue with it.

I thought a unisex toilet should also contain a wash basin inside the cubicle? Useful for teenage girls ( and menopausal women) who are prone to period flooding

If they are making the girls feel so uncomfortable they don't want to use the loo, how exactly is that reducing bullying? It seems to be institutionalising it

DD just started at secondary school where this was introduced a year or two ago, but parents did complain and they have a mix of boys, girls and gender neutral toilets, so there is plenty of choice.
I don't know whether parents had to invoke the law, because I didn't have children there at the time.

Remembering how boys used to be when they're 14 or so (sex-obsessed, sometimes violent) this sounds like a recipe for disaster.

As far as I am aware they are usually all floor to ceiling cubicles that open up to a sink area that is open to the corridors. The intent is to make it easier for teachers to do passive supervision and make sure there aren't areas hidden away where bullying can go unnoticed. Not sure if that will make any difference to your daughters feelings but probably worth explaining to try to make her see it is actually being done to try and protect her. Whether you agree with the approach or not at the moment the toilets are what they are and the explanation may help reassure her and get her to use the toilets.

They are toilets with gaps at the bottom.

Having a shared sink area is an embarrassing nightmare for teenage girls having to wash menstrual blood off their hands after changing tampons or pads, in front of sniggering teenage boys.
And gaps under the doors are illegal - they must be floor to ceiling in a unisex toilet. You can imagine teenage boys holding phones under the door to film the girls on the loo. What is wrong with these “woke” idiots - don’t let them get away with imposing this dangerous nonsense on your daughters!

Crikey. Not OK.

There was a thing in the papers about some teenage girls who challenged this in their own school and it got reversed.

Will try and dig it out after the school run.

I just googled our school and the story (Outrage at school's plan for gender neutral toilets) made national newspaper headlines just over a year ago.

I'd like to see some real evidence of this 'it reduces bullying' thing. Bullies tend merely to re-group and transfer their activities elsewhere.

As others have noted, however, unisex toilets are likely to result in the oppression of girls because of curtailment of privacy.

I'm shocked that British schools are deliberately stripping girls of their right to female toilets. Women in generations past fought for single sex facilities for a reason.

Women all over the world are still fighting for female toilets, because the alternative is increased violence and harassment of women and girls. Women and girls curtail their activities if they don't have safe, private toilets.

OP if the sinks aren't enclosed I would be very specific about management of menstrual bleeding to the school. Gaps under the doors make this situation totally unacceptable though, so I'd start there. Going in as a group sounds like a good way forward.

It's disgraceful that your DD is having to refight a battle that we thought was won.

I don't know about reducing bullying but I do know that because of a past experience at that age I too would have refused to use unisex toilets and your daughter shouldn't have to.

These policies not only ignore regulations they also ignore the wishes and best interests of the children themselves.

(FTR my son hates unisex toilets too - it isn't just girls who dislike them)

If there was a way to get the girls who won the battle with their school in touch with the girls at other schools who're not happy so they could provide peer to peer support and coaching that would be a pretty great project for young feminists in training.

And we have this on the one hand

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/single-sex-toilets-unesco-un-international-womens-day-period-a8244776.html

and on the other single sex toilets being reduced in the UK.

So which one is right??

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/genderneutral-toilets-my-daughter-was-called-selfish-for-wanting-girlsonly-loos-at-school-cwth60b2c

This is the story I mentioned (maybe a Times subscriber could help with a share token or something?)

Here’s a U.K. primary school: www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/unisex-school-toilets-gender-neutral-london-inclusive-bathrooms-lgbt-same-sex-a7441841.html

Here’s a Canadian link: thebridgehead.ca/2017/11/20/alberta-students-start-petition-to-demand-gender-specific-bathrooms/

Gender Neutral toilets are not going down well at the Home Office:

metro.co.uk/2018/08/16/women-fed-mens-bathroom-habits-home-office-gender-neutral-toilets-7846233/

Not at the Barbican:

www.standard.co.uk/news/london/barbican-to-review-genderneutral-toilets-after-furious-row-over-long-queues-for-women-a3509136.html

This is an experiment that didn’t work. The sooner authorities admit it, the better.

A few extra non-specific loos were all that were required.

As far as I am aware they are usually all floor to ceiling cubicles that open up to a sink area that is open to the corridors.

They have this at my DC secondary school - one side female one male double sinks down middle- the tampax machine is on back wall visible to both sides and corridor.

i don't think it's ideal but children haven't complained and school thinks they are great.

It's a realtively new build though less than 10 years - DN is going to same secondary I went to and it's still not like that it's seperate rooms male/female spread out over school.

Share token here:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/genderneutral-toilets-my-daughter-was-called-selfish-for-wanting-girlsonly-loos-at-school-cwth60b2c?shareToken=885e7148b55de50e61a26f8f4eb378a9

And yes BettyDuMonde. Mixed sex toilets don't go down well anywhere - people don't want them and the only groups demanding them are those currently housing people who are a threat to women and children inside and outside of toilets!

Share token for Betty's link:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/genderneutral-toilets-my-daughter-was-called-selfish-for-wanting-girlsonly-loos-at-school-cwth60b2c?shareToken=26f7e6c0e66265ebae62d48af92497ea

If my daughter's (14 next week) school introduced unisex toilets she would never use it, no way.

This is why gaps under cubicles aren’t OK:

www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/local-news/sex-shame-spy-jason-proch-left-3713536

If you google ‘toilet voyeur guilty’ you will find tons of similar stories from local papers. This is a phenomenon on the rise and gender neutral loos are aiding and abetting that.

If you google ‘toilet voyeur’ without the ‘guilty’ you will get pages and pages of porn, so I wouldn’t recommend it. It does give you another angle on the issue though. Worth pointing out to school officials.

Problems with teens and pornography are well documented.