Who's going to the WEP Conference this weekend? Fancy a thread?

[RhymesWithOrange]

I'm the only person I know going. I would be interested to get others MNers thoughts on the conference and the agenda as it happens.

And of course the emergency debate.

My perception is that it was subtly pro gender self ID.

Claire McCann wrote a recent article in Counsel Magazine which makes her position clear:

(extract)
"The debate has focused on the question of whether trans rights (especially for those who are male to female trans) would erode hard-fought women’s rights. Some have argued that amendments to the GRA 2004 (so as to confer legal gender recognition on the basis of an administrative and de-medicalised process) would permit predatory and dangerous men access to ‘safe’ female spaces. Many in the trans community and those seeking to advance trans inclusion have sought to question whether these fears are realistic. Regrettably, the debate has often descended into toxic hostility with misunderstanding on both sides.

Properly analysed, it is questionable whether dangerous men would abuse an amended (easier) gender recognition process in order to change their legal sex (to female) for the sole purpose of accessing women’s spaces. Under the current regime, people are not in general required to produce a copy of their birth certificate to access single-sex facilities or services. Should a man wish to use deception to access such services or places with dangerous motives, he will seek to do so without needing to acquire a GRC. More importantly, there are existing protections in the criminal law to prevent such activity." (continues)

www.counselmagazine.co.uk/articles/gender-recognition-and-trans-equality

I agree the GRA should be repealed. Hard cases make bad law. And it's a fucking terrible law which should never have been passed in its current form.

@Materialist I agree but we are a million miles away from that position and travelling further, faster.

Equality legislation debates now starting. Four debates in total (in order):

• Making equal pay and equal caregiving a reality in the modern labour market
• Update to the EqA to include socio-economic status as a protected characteristic
• Maintaining the protections of the Equality Act 2010 (Amendment A)
• Gender Recognition Act 2004

Rather they might just focus on women's-specific issues as laid out in their core policies. I know that sounds like a cop out as for many of us sex and gender identity is the foundation on which every other feminist policy is built.

Well yes, quite. If you have self-ID, then there is no such thing as a woman-specific issue.

Menstruation isn't specific to women - people with vaginas aren't necessarily women.

Pregnancy, contraception, abortion - ditto.

Prostate cancer could be a women's issue. So could erectile dysfunction.

It's just conceptually incoherent bullshit.

I'm Jewish as well as a feminist, so well and truly fucked over by all of the political parties of which I've ever been, or considered becoming, a member.

Should a man wish to use deception to access such services or places with dangerous motives, he will seek to do so without needing to acquire a GRC. More importantly, there are existing protections in the criminal law to prevent such activity." (continues)

Claire McCann might like to reflect on the ways that "Karen White, formerly known as David Thompson and Stephen Wood" committed crimes against women and children in prisons, probation hostels and psychiatric wards.

some details in today's article in Sunday Times:
www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/why-was-convicted-paedophile-allowed-to-move-to-a-female-jail-nmpbfm272

Under the current regime, people are not in general required to produce a copy of their birth certificate to access single-sex facilities or services.

This is a really poor interpretation of what is essentially a social convention. Yes it is true that people are not required to produce a birth cert. that’s because everyone can tell who is a man and who is a woman with their own senses so proof is not necessary. Furthermore, if a man was to access a single sex facility in times past, staff would have chucked him out and that would have been that. Now, they would be fearful of falling foul of equalities legislation. For all they know he may have a GRC but they can’t ask him because that too is illegal.

@GorgonLondon I agree with everything you say. But the legal definition of a woman was changed in 2004 (God I wish we had a time machine!). WEP was formed in 2015.

YY. Also moves the Overton window.

We are getting the scraps here. Fuck that.

But the legal definition of a woman was changed in 2004 (God I wish we had a time machine!

In legislation which followed 'behind the scenes' lobbying by Press for Change and kept out of the press (see Christine Burns quote in Guardian article linked previously)
So was this properly scrutinised?

OMG Sophie has just spoken.

I'm encouraged hearing what Sophie is saying. On Twitter

twitter.com/HarrogateWEP/status/1038745635091111938?s=20

For anyone who is a little hazy on just what Bindel has been through around this issue, she recently detailed it on Twitter: threadreaderapp.com/thread/1037668994269040643.html

Sophie reaffirmed the party's position on gender id.

Everything she said was spot on. Asking questions should not be framed as transphobic. Need to understand impact on sex based spaces and services. On representation. On lots more. She was awesome.

Subsequent speakers for the motion are getting more love than against.

Well done Sophie and the GC speakers!

Whatever my reservations about the WEP and her I think this is brave.

This is the longest and and most impassioned debate of the whole weekend. About 20 speakers. It's been referred back to policy and data committees.

It's been referred back to policy and data committees.

And the make-up of those committees will be crucial.

Thank you very much @RhymesWithOrange , i was keen to attend but family commitments got in the way. As a founder life member, I had been concerned with what i had been seeing and reading about WEP but am seriously hearted by what i have read here.

Thank you for your sterling efforts, its been great to be kept updated.

Just want to say that I’m still here, I spoke earlier, I’ve been talking with and supporting many people who spoke. I can’t keep up with things here on the ground and post/keep up with this thread at the same time but will endeavour to do so later on. I will say am immensely proud of the debate we just had. Hugely proud that we as a party heard so many women’s voices.

you are welcome.

GC women. Sensible women. Caring women. Intelligent women. WEP needs you.

So what does this mean now? Sorry I have no clue how these motions and committees work.