Who's going to the WEP Conference this weekend? Fancy a thread?

[RhymesWithOrange]

I'm the only person I know going. I would be interested to get others MNers thoughts on the conference and the agenda as it happens.

And of course the emergency debate.

Glad to hear it!

We're in the 'Changes to the Gender Recognition Act' session being run by two barristers - Catherine Casserley and Claire McCann.

Place marking for this bit.

So far it’s sounded inspirational!

“Men and women’s bodies are different. Where this applies, pharmaceutical companies should be required to label their bottles ‘Not tested on women.’ Sophie Walker, @WEP_UK leaders speech 2018 #WEP2018 #WE2018”

:)

Starting the discussion with identifying the issues:
Toilets & facilities
Exceptions
Legal recognition
Identity / intersex / non-binary
Right to be forgotten

Background context:
ECtHR: B v France & Goodwin v UK
GRA 2004
EU Equal Treatment Directive
Equality Act 2010
Human Rights Act 1998
Data Protection Act / GDPR

S7 EQA 2010 - removal of medical requirement
Process of gender reassignment
Discrimination by perception
Gender identity: non binary / gender fluid - not tested yet

Workplace discrimination
Part 5 of EA 2010
Two types of discrimination - direct and indirect
Exceptions: occupational requirements
GEO Guidance for Employers on recruitment and retention of transgender staff
Some exceptions - e.g. intimate care needs - must be proportionate

Provision of goods and services
Part 3 of EQA 2010
Single-sex or separately provided services- paras 26-28
Communal accommodation - para 3 of section 23 to EQA
EHRC Guidance & CoP for service providers

Gender Recognition Act 2004
S1 application for GRC
SS2&3 evidential requirements and determination of application by Gender Recognition Panel
Recognition based on: diagnosis, lived experience, intention and agreement to comply with S3
S4 Grant of application/issue of GRC
S9 legal recognition of "acquired" gender

Heck you type fast....

All very legal so far, just reviewing the current legislation.

5000 applications to GRP in the last 13 years. Vast majority passed/accepted.

GEO Guidance for Employers on recruitment and retention of transgender staff

Pretty sure this was written by Gendered Intelligence.

Current govt consultation based on estimates that 500k people in the UK identity as trans.

Why seek a GRC?

No need for GRC to change name and gender on passport, driving license.
No need for GRC to acquire protection under s7 EqA
Require GRC to change birth certificate

National LGBT Survey in 2017

Showed that discrimination, stigma, harassment of trans people was rife.

I WONDER WHAT THEY WOULD FIND IF THEY SURVEYED WOMEN FFS

(That was my own thought by the way, not the nice barrister lady)

National survey by the way - all self reported.

Hmm. As I remember it the methodology of that survey was so flawed that the findings should pretty much be ignored.

She doesn't sound like a nice barrister lady. She sounds like a throwing women under the bus while misrepresenting the truth barrister lady. My GC friend there is live messaging this to me.

As a practising lawyer I’m confused about these political barristers.

Who are they?

...and again why is this women's problem to solve? Why must always give stuff up to men 'cos they want it? Bah, I'm a wep member so following with interest, thanks for the thread.

Proposed changes:

1. Terminology to cover all identities
2. GRA says sex is ASSIGNED at birth (as opposed to observed) FFS
3. Definitions of gender identity and gender dysphoria

Mechanism for legal recognition

Is the current process for trans people to achieve legal recognition too intrusive or bureaucratic?

Options:
Remove requirements for
Medical diagnosis
Lived experience
Spousal consent (replace with spousal notification)

Above is considered too intrusive.

In my head I'm thinking about the hoops we make asylum seekers to jump through - and we think the GRC process is too onerous ?

Other questions:

Are there alternatives to existing evidential evidence?
Require a reflection period?
Retain a statutory declaration?

NB: gender recognition devolved to Scotland

Claire McCann advised the government at the time of the Miller Trans Inquiry.

Don't know about the other, Catherine Casserley, but she is listed as a formal supporter of the WEP GRA motion to be debated tomorrow. So must be a pro trans WEP member.

Thanks.

They are misguided but sincere I guess

Other possible amendments

Cost
Privacy/disclosure protections (in s22 GRA)
Minimum age criterion of 18 will stay
Amends to EqA ruled out but some questions in consultation about: single sex sport, shared accommodation and single sex services
Question whether non binary should be legally recognised?

Onto questions:

Another barrister asking questions - conflicts between GRA and EA.

1. Definition of "trans" includes cross dressers
2. Not possible to exclude people with a GRC from single sex services.

Re: hoop jumping - Not even just asylum seekers but non EU spouses too.

My first husband (of 3 so far 😂) was from the USA (still is, we’re divorced, I didn’t kill him!) and the paperwork and cost of getting a fiancé visa, a spousal visa, indefinite leave to remain and citizenship is enormous, stressful and takes years.

Safe to say that barrister is on our side.

Answer for second question first:

Not been decided in case law. Service would have to show legitimate aim and proportionate response to achieve that aim.

So the exemption is there in the EA but has not been tested if this trumps the GRA.