Transman 'attacked' by members of women's rugby team

[CaitlynsCat]

Slightly confusing this:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6109467/Transgender-rugby-player-reveals-female-rival-spat-blood-MOUTH-match.html

Verity looks like a man, has a beard like a man, identifies as man, but is biologically female. Oh, and is taking steroids (testosterone).

But still gets to play on a women's team.

Anyone able to explain?

that should be 'member', not 'members', in the title

I know sod all about rugby, but handing someone in the face? I’m pretty sure you’re not supposed to go for the face with any part of your body. Spitting blood in somebody’s mouth is vile though, and I’m pretty sure it’s classed as an assault, but gross as spitting is, it might not have been aimed at their mouth, and it’s just as likely to be because they were smacked in the face. If no one has been charged then presumably the police did look into it, and if they didn’t involve the police, why are they whining in the Mail now?
And how can you out someone who is known to be female as transgender when they’ve got a full beard? That’s like me complaining that somebody outed me for having facial piercings.
And they shouldn’t be competing in women’s sport anyway if they’re shooting up on T. For anyone else that would be against the rules.
Honestly if these people are so happy when they transition, why do they need to go round trying to garner the sympathy vote?

What's the actual story??? It's only in the rags because it's trans

As far as I am aware (DS plays rugby) handing-off is meant to be done to the chest or shoulder, and refs will blow for a penalty if it's done to the face. So it sounds like the person making the complaint committed a foul, and a potentially fairly dangerous one at that, which left their opponent bleeding. That's not to condone the opponent retaliating, and spitting blood in someone's face is unacceptable.

But I do wonder whether the RFL needs to look again at what stage people need to move from the women's to the men's game if they're taking testosterone.

And I would strongly argue that it is unsafe to let transitioning people going the other way, i.e. biologically male individuals transitioning to transwomen, ever play a contact sport like rugby. I cannot see that there could ever be any justification for letting biologically male individuals play against women in a high impact contact sport which already carries an exceptionally high risk of concussion and spinal injury.

The story for me is why do you get to take steroids and still compete in women's rugby?

Are women allowed to take steroids? Surely that's not allowed even in amateur rugby

What a weird story. They punched their opponent in the face but the opponent is the bad guy for spitting out the blood from being punched in the face?
It is the people who spin these stories into yarn that astonish men.
They look an absolute idiot writing that.

I'm confused by this-if 'he' wants to be a man, then why play on a womens team whilst sporting a beard & claim he has been outed?

I wish this person well, but they surely can see that being on T puts them at an unfair advantage-have they no concern for the other women on the pitch?

Well quite, if I was a sports person and started taking testosterone while still identifying as a woman, wouldn’t that be seen as a doping violation?

"Are women allowed to take steroids? Surely that's not allowed even in amateur rugby "

No, that's the point of the thread. Steroids are very strictly banned in all sports at all levels.

Unless, it seems you claim to be a bloke, in which case it's hunky-dory.

I think it's an example of how this ideology divides people into men and non-men. Women are just a leftovers category for people who aren't accepted as men.

Baffling in so many ways.

So men who are men play men's rugby.

Men who identify as women play women's rugby, with the advantage of male size/strength etc

Women who identify as men play women's rugby with the advantage of testosterone enhanced size/strength etc.

Women who are women put up and shut up.

Sounds fair.

So hang on. This person is transitioning to a male. Is far into transitioning that beard etc have developed and are playing against females? The person is also complaining because of the internet outing of the transition?
Now to top it off whilst playing rugby he hit his opponent in the face causing her to bleed, from where her mouth? I know when I have had a lot of blood in my mouth I spit. Could this also be why she didn't face any charges because the automatic reflex to a lot of blood in the mouth is to spit, and this guy just happened to still be in the vicinity?

But men aren’t allowed to take testosterone while playing sport either.
Under what circumstances is it acceptable to take testosterone, is it a medical exemption or something? I mean, it would be pretty noticeable for a woman, so presumably they do need a doctors note or something? But then I thought the trans lobby were against the medicalisation of trans, for adults at least.

So men who are men play men's rugby.

Men who identify as women play women's rugby, with the advantage of male size/strength etc

Women who identify as men play women's rugby with the advantage of testosterone enhanced size/strength etc.

Women who are women put up and shut up.
^^
This

So men who are men play men's rugby.

Men who identify as women play women's rugby, with the advantage of male size/strength etc

Women who identify as men play women's rugby with the advantage of testosterone enhanced size/strength etc.

Women who are women put up and shut up.

Sounds fair.

Yup, that's about the size of it Maryz and it fucking sucks. (I look at the girls on DS's team - still young enough that it's mixed rugby - and my heart just breaks for what the future has in store for them. And just as women's rugby was beginning to take off as a sport and get more TV time/bigger crowds at international matches.)

Could this also be why she didn't face any charges because the automatic reflex to a lot of blood in the mouth is to spit, and this guy just happened to still be in the vicinity?

Presumably rugby players wear gumshields even at amateur level? I wear one for sparring, and I can't imagine being able to maliciously spit accurately into someone's mouth unless you were leaning over them on the ground and drooling on them. Or maybe spraying all over?

Disgusting behaviour from the offending female, but why is someone taking testosterone allowed to compete in a woman's team, when taking it was a doping scandal amongst East German female athletes.

www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/world/article24780097.html

Yes, they do wear gumshields. In fact, I don't think the ref would allow someone on the field without one.

Agreed that the handing-off seems to have been inappropriate and if there was a deliberate spitting into the mouth in retaliation then that is poor sporting behaviour (tho' I've no idea how the governing body categorises this).

Previous discussion of Hannah Mouncey and Australian Rules Football that had some interesting discussion of related issues.

The 37-year-old, who has developed a full beard after taking testosterone, said after the game opposition players outed him on the internet as transgender.

Yes, because the full beard and referring to themselves as “he” made sure it was previously a well kept secrets. Sweet Jesus!

So he smacked someone hard enough in the face to make them bleed? Maybe the “spitting” was a reflex reaction to suddenly getting a mouthful of blood?

And as for being “outed” as transgender, I think the fact he has a beard and plays for a women’s team may have been a bit of a give away. Not much outing required.

Well at least there was a Nan in the story

Bit like xfactor

Women's sport suffers from the inclusion of transmen and transwomen.

If you are playing on a women's rugby team with a full beard, you're not going to keep it secret that you're trans!