DM: Women avoiding new gender neutral toilets in the home office because men can't close the door

[miri1985]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6065075/Female-Home-Office-employees-refusing-use-new-36-000-gender-neutral-toilets.html

Great job wasting money as usual!

We have an equal number of unisex loos to male and female ones here, there were 2 female loos to every male loo but in order to support the transgender employees there are none, the female employees lost exclusive use of their loos . There are probably a third more females to males in building.

I don't use the unisex loos, preferring to use loos that don't have urine on the seat and floor and that don't stink. The male loos also have urine on the seat and floor and stink. The female loos do not.

They should be disciplined and if need be escalated to being dismissed or if done with intent to expose Police action taken, In my work environment we have mostly single sex toilet but in work areas unisex as space is a premium, If we can manage to close a door I'm sure the men in the Home Office can.

This was a huge waste of money, £8'000 for a SIGN FFS.
Were any employees asked if they wanted gender neutral loos-bet not. Women do not want or need gender neutral loos. Why not have some men only, some women only & a few gender neutral-that way everyones catered for

It is a stupid waste of money when there are other things that need funding.

The thing that I am not surprised about at all is here is clear proof that women stop using loos when they're uncomfortable. They don't necessarily always hide their discomfort and get on with things although I appreciate many are socialised to do that. But A significant number will just avoid tending to their basic needs. Sitting at work all day and not feeling able to use the loo is dreadful. We should all want better for women as a society.

Most of the comments were of the 'WTF' type; one which wasn't included: 'I am sure that women also leave the doors open. '

The only times in all my 57 years I've seen women's loos being used with the door open is when the user is a small child. So never in a workplace.

I can’t see how gender neutral/unisex toilets benefit men or women. Men want to walk in, have a wee, then walk out, they do not want to queue for a cubicle, they do not want to be bothered shutting and locking the door, and the majority, in my experience, don’t bother washing their hands either. The majority of women I know do not want to share space with men because of privacy, mess and smell, and safety concerns. How many people exactly are clamouring for these unisex facilities? Are the users of these facilities being consulted before they are switched to gender neutral/unisex? And how the fuck does a sign cost £8000, has it got diamond lettering or something?

I know why they don't want to shut the door and it has nothing to do with intimidation.

They don't want to have to hug the sanitary bins to be able to get into cubicle and shut the door.

Welcome to gender neutral people, you'll now find out what females have put up with for years.

It's normal for loos to be provided in roughly the right proportion for users (leaving aside the common lack of understanding of why women take longer so need more). For instance, DD's girls' school had few male loos; her uni engineering dept. has more men's than women's. So, gender neutral loos should be provided, but in proportion to the number of people who need them. If they're properly designed unisex loos then there can be more for those that don't mind them.

I'm not sure the sign will be effective. If they're already not thinking about whether they might be making someone else uncomfortable with their behaviour, this won't change it. Telling them it's potentially going to lead to disciplinary action might.

£8000 for 10 signs....are they gold plated?
Misses point of thread

They should be disciplined and if need be escalated to being dismissed or if done with intent to expose Police action taken

Well, they clearly have been reported to someone who then dealt with the situation by posting a paper sign on toilet doors. That whole 'report it if there's an issue with someone behaving inappropriately' mantra doesn't really amount to much in reality does it?

What a waste of time and money.

Didn't think trans people wanted gender neutral anyway. Thought the whole point was the validation of using the opposite sex toilet

And this has to mess things up for other protected characteristics

I hope they are happy paying out for wasted hours. With urinals gone and twice as many people now waiting for cubicles and people waiting for men to leave it must be having an effect on the working hours/productivity

They could have saved all this by having people understand that toilets segregated by sex only, are already gender neutral.

Isn't there law stipulating that male and female toilets have to be provided in the workplace? Not in the EA, in a different law?

This is the legislation on toilets at work:

www.hse.gov.uk/contact/faqs/toilets.htm

So if the Home Office only provide unisex cubicle toilets in the same room for both males and females with no separate single sex or enough single room facilities they are breaking the law?

My university renovated the library and installed unisex toilets. I was too scared too use them in the late hours (the library was 24 hrs) with not many people around so I had to use the disabled toilet.

Fortunately, we don't have unisex toilets at my work but it is becoming increasingly common in bars. Men hardly ever seem to be close the door and both I and a friend have walked into 'gender neutral' toilets (two different bars on different occasions) to be faced with a man with his penis out pissing in the sinks because the cubicles were occupied.

That's disgusting.

They could have saved all this by having people understand that toilets segregated by sex only, are already gender neutral.

that is an excellent point. same sex gender neutral. that needs to catch on!

Quoll
BRILLIANT you have hit the nail on the head. I never thought of it that way before.
Same sex toilets ARE inherently gender neutral just as they are.

At work we have single occupant (a small room with a proper door and the sink is inside) unisex loos, and I think that all single occupant loos should be unisex and placed carefully within a building to ensure that women aren't dragged into the loos by hostile men.

Any multiple occupant loo (a big room with flimsy cubicles) should be single sex for the privacy, dignity, and safety of the women using the female loos.

Post-offence reporting is not safeguarding.

Post-offence reporting is not safeguarding.

This! It really fucks me off when people say 'well if something happens then just report it to the police'.

May as well not bother with any safeguarding then at all ever. Mixed sex everything and no child protection measures for anything. Because anyone can report to the police if something bad happenes right?

"Men hardly ever seem to be close the door and both I and a friend have walked into 'gender neutral' toilets (two different bars on different occasions) to be faced with a man with his penis out pissing in the sinks because the cubicles were occupied."

This.

I also don't think the men are likely to be doing it on purpose to upset anyone.

I agree that it's likely a combination of
Not used to shutting the door so not automatic
Point about it being v tricky to get in and shut door with sanitary bin is highly pertinent. + men tend to be bigger than women so potentially will have to squish themselves in even more.

The idea of having single rooms out onto a shared corridor, each with their own sink etc is fine (although men won't want to queue). The idea of having the usual bathroom setup with 3 unisex cubicles is much less fine.

Essentially both the men and the women are inconvenienced by this (unless all the women stop using the work toilets thus freeing them entirely up for the men which is what seems to have happened here. A win for equality and no mistake).