Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Transexual voices - twitter thread

113 replies

OnThisHill · 16/08/2018 01:38

twitter.com/tsvoices/status/1029863492197785600?s=19

Please read this, I really feel the tide is turning.
We are being heard. The message is getting out, but sadly, I think the gender activists have created a climate where a backlash will come, and these guys are saying the same.

BUT - I think we're reaching tipping point...... What do you all think?

OP posts:
terryleather · 17/08/2018 10:13

Once again Lisa so clearly analyses and nails it - that video is spot on, thanks for sharing!

Hulo · 17/08/2018 14:35

It's getting really weird. The first account is still down but the fake account is now stalking people who are discussing it and tweeting at them.

Unfortunately for the fakers, one of their tweets has been liked by our friend Dr Adrian which has blown their cover a bit. And just seen - Jess Bradley is following it too along with a load of other TRAs.

The faker account is also following a lot of GC and radfem twitter accounts too. How can it claim to be honest when it is so obviously mimicking the first one that was set up by GC TS?

Womaningreen · 17/08/2018 15:29

my guess is the faker account thinks it's being satirical? Though I'm not sure.

everything is very surreal Confused

mirandayardley · 17/08/2018 18:48

My take on the Transsexual Voices Matter fiasco.

R0wantrees · 17/08/2018 19:13

What happened with the TSRainCrew?

mirandayardley · 17/08/2018 20:29

It died a death for exactly the same reasons as above.

Oldstyle · 17/08/2018 20:35

Huge respect to you Miranda; you’ve been actively involved in this way longer than I have and it's entirely possible that a) I’m being naïve and/or b) I'll end up feeling as you do about the TS Voices statement but...

Writing for public consumption is difficult at the best of times. Writing when people on all sides (and none) are ever ready to go on the attack and when you have skin in the game is almost impossible. Something is omitted that one reader thinks is essential, something is included that another considers an appalling distraction, words become 'literal violence', grammatical errors are proof of stupidity, whataboutery responses suffocate the central argument and distort the original intention. And we are all left more angry, more distressed, and less able to acknowledge each other’s vantage point or simple humanity.

If the TSV statement is read for what it actually does say, and with a presumption of integrity, I think that the OP is entitled to her sense of hope. The group explicitly acknowledge that ‘safety would be compromised’ by self-ID and by men’s ‘demands of access to female only spaces, their frequently demonstrated express misogyny, disrespect for the biological needs and specific rights of young girls, mothers, lesbians and many other, traditionally, female only, social groups.’ They also differentiate between ‘women’ and ‘transsexuals’ and state their objection to ‘any “trans rights” encroaching and gradually erasing women’s rights’. Of course the statement is written from a transsexual vantage point and mostly deals with their concerns. That is entirely legitimate; they, as we, are threatened by trans ideology. But there is an explicit intent to hear and understand women’s concerns and to find common ground.

Their statement has lifted me.

My hope is that, rather than dismissing them as ‘just silly’, ‘whining’ or ‘ridiculous’ we might start with an assumption of sincerity and an acceptance that there is indeed a common enemy and we are stronger together.

Oldstyle · 17/08/2018 20:51

PS and I've just checked out their (genuine) webpage which acknowledges the omissions and 'errors' and explains that they are rewriting to take account of these. So I'm going to go ahead and appreciate them fulsomely. Thanks TSVs Flowers Flowers Flowers

mirandayardley · 17/08/2018 21:29

If you actually read my post, I’m less concerned with their statement rather more concerned with the pretty blatant male chauvinism in their interactions and that given this group includes men who describe themselves as ‘mother’ or ‘lesbian’ it has no moral authority.

Oldstyle · 17/08/2018 21:41

Sorry - haven't been able to access the interactions, either directly or via your post. For some reason the images turn into symbols when I try to enlarge them. And I'm not sure how to find out who is in the group so I can't assess moral authority on any basis other than the actual statement.
Could we agree about the group statement in its own right even if the interactions (presumably from just one of the group) are inappropriate? Or does the latter cancel out the former in your view?

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 17/08/2018 21:54

What Miranda said

I mean I think it's really good that different groups who are all experiencing forms of appropriation by the same problematic ideology speak up because reining in that ideology is in all our interests. But that doesn't mean I have to agree with or accommodate the ideologies of those different groups either.

mirandayardley · 17/08/2018 21:56

My point is, if you’re going to claim to be different, you actually have to be different. And they are claiming they are different to TRAs, because gender dysphoria, yet they use the same reversals etc and members claim ‘woman’, ‘lesbian’ and ‘mother’. They have no authority. They are rank and file transgender activists.

My post provided this group with a solution I know they will not buy into, because they’re hypocrites.

Melamin · 17/08/2018 22:08

Thanks. This all gets confusing and it is good to hear from people with clear thoughts.

I did not like the use of the term 'reasonable women'. It smacks of a hierarchy of value judgement. They can't pick and choose, they must take the rough with the smooth. Women are what they are.

mirandayardley · 17/08/2018 22:14

Like I said, the account’s responses are male chauvinism. Nothing new here.

R0wantrees · 17/08/2018 22:18

I did not like the use of the term 'reasonable women'. It smacks of a hierarchy of value judgement.

cf India Willoughby's comment in her Pink News article April 2018 ;
(extract)
"Mumsnet’s reputation for transphobia is fully deserved. Hardliners openly strategise ways to make life tougher for trans people: Passengers warned not to travel on sleeper trains because they might end up in the same sleeping berth as a woman who’s trans. Support gathered to stop trans women being allowed on Labour’s all-women shortlists. National meeting organised where they can clap and cheer their hatred.

It’s all very similar to the way the National Front used to operate.

I’m sure most people who use the site are decent folk. They want nothing to do with the rabid mouth-frothing going on by so-called “feminists.”

And I say so-called “feminists” quite deliberately. It’s the point which is paralysing anyone doing anything about the situation. Because these radical groups are hiding under the “feminist” banner, Government and other institutions are reluctant to question them. They don’t want to be perceived as attacking “women’s rights.” (continues)
www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/04/24/india-willoughby-transphobia-opinion-worried-for-my-life-mumsnet/

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 17/08/2018 22:21

The situation where you live with people being a bit of a dick because at least they're not a full-on raving misogynist arsehole is one that is very familiar to me and I imagine most women.

Perhaps a lot of us are a bit too habituated to it

KataraJean · 17/08/2018 22:27

I liked that blog post Miranda

Melamin · 18/08/2018 10:38

Lisa's video was absolutely brilliant. I have looked at a few more. I have read and looked at so many things and know so much of what is going on, but she has put it into a context.

I feel so much more confident of what I know now.

We need to get those stickers out there and the links to the websites.

Ereshkigal · 18/08/2018 10:40

My point is, if you’re going to claim to be different, you actually have to be different. And they are claiming they are different to TRAs, because gender dysphoria, yet they use the same reversals etc and members claim ‘woman’, ‘lesbian’ and ‘mother’. They have no authority. They are rank and file transgender activists.

YY Miranda. I was clutching at straws to see if they would do anything differently.

Ereshkigal · 18/08/2018 10:48

I did not like the use of the term 'reasonable women'. It smacks of a hierarchy of value judgement. They can't pick and choose, they must take the rough with the smooth. Women are what they are.

Exactly this.

HotRocker · 18/08/2018 11:40

Exactly, and what is a reasonable woman? Who gets to decide who is a reasonable woman?

sociopathsunited · 18/08/2018 11:42

Reasonable women = "be a good girl"

Fuck that.

cyberwanderlust · 18/08/2018 15:08

I'm the woman that talked to @tsvoices on the 16th of August from via my @gendercritical Twitter account.

When I explicitly asked them to denounce the TRA's violence against women, they said the following:

"We condemn all forms of violence. Male violence ESPECIALLY as we encounter it MORE OFTEN. Transgender violence as it may appear to be on our behalf too. Radfems VERBAL ABUSE OF THEIR ALLIES too."

Tell me again why should any woman take this bullshit?
Like, what violence do you experience from females IRL?
Like, female violence is "radfems abusing their allies"?

They're idiots. The whole bunch of them and their accounts are not worth of our time. If you listen what Lisa M had to say about it - you're gonna figure that out too.

Printscreens of the active accounts that derailed lots of women (and still do) on Twitter are in the attachment.

Transexual voices - twitter thread
Transexual voices - twitter thread
Transexual voices - twitter thread
KataraJean · 18/08/2018 16:57

I have never seen any feminist abuse of either their allies or indeed others and I have been following this since Conway Hall refused to host a rad fem conference in 2012. The idea that there is abuse on both sides is pernicious nonsense. To disagree, and even to disagree passionately and viscerally, is not to abuse as long as no-one is silenced. It is the trans allies and trans advocacy groups who are seeking to silence, bully and intimidate.

ShotsFired · 18/08/2018 18:18

I feel sad that I was suckered in to feeling positive about this at the start. I naively thought it was a genuine attempt to try and redress the balance by a genuine trans group who shared our fears.

Greater minds have taken the trouble to educate me/others via this thread and I am thankful for that, if not a little despondent, at the false hope.