Trans women in women only space - a question

[user1495487816]

Please excuse the username, I can't for the life of me remember my password to change it (it's on the ever increasing to do list)

I have a genuine question, and I hope this is the right place to ask it. I've been trying to find an answer but all I seem to find is a lot of angry people on both sides on Twitter...

I understand the need for women-only spaces, and I support this. What I'd like to ask is: what is the opinion on these spaces being used by trans women who have fully transitioned ie. no longer have male genitalia?

How on earth can they see it as a victory to threaten women who do not want a man in their space, with having more men in their space to get them to back down and accept the first man in their space? Bullying dickhead.

As a side note, this issue is a great way to show up all the lefty men who never really did like listening to women.

Isn't it just. Maybe one day someone will take note of this.

I do wonder if in the above case the TW would have been happy for the toilets to be all unisex and if they were happy with that which meant sharing space with all the men and women together why they specifically wanted access to the female only toilets in the first place. Perhaps the women should have called the union reps bluff.

The 'hilarious' thing is the TW was offered the use of the disabled loo, but the union rep was very concerned with the access rights of the disabled.

Of course I'm not advising women not to report sex crimes that is a ridiculous accusation but I can guarantee that the only person who would end up worse off in the above scenario is the woman.

I didn't make an accusation, I asked you the question. This is feminism chat where the discussion, we can reasonably expect, is focused on promoting and improving women's rights. Your posts on this crime report of indecent exposure are passive aggressive statements on the pointlessness of women asserting their rights and reporting crime against them. I wonder how else that can be interpreted other than discouragement to report crime?

I know women struggle to get crime taken seriously but this passive aggressive attitude is not one I support being advocated here in feminist chat. My suggestion is that all crime should be reported and that women her should absolutely expect to find emotional and practical support to do this.

Employers have anti bullying and harassment policies which support women in reporting incidents, again, taking a passive aggressive approach to this is counter productive from posters on a feminist board and I am really disappointed to see it.

No doubt you will continue in this vein, I have found once people have locked into a passive aggressive mindset they struggle to get out of it.

But it is damaging and inappropriate to promote that on a feminism board.

I disagree that I am being passive aggressive Trousered, I am being realistic.

I doubt the Police would take the report seriously especially once they are made aware that the Company is supporting the TW access to the Women's Toilets.

It is hard enough to get a case of rape to court, let alone a conviction because of the 'he said, she said' nature of such crimes - it is going to be 1000 x harder in this instance.

The Company would take a dim view of the women reporting it, anyone and everyone is tip toeing around TW at the moment for fear of being labelled 'transphobic'.

It would take a very strong person to report and someone who could afford it both financially and emotionally. I wouldn't hesitate to report it but then I am in the fortunate position of being financially secure and have a robust support system to weather the inevitable backlash.

The 'hilarious' thing is the TW was offered the use of the disabled loo, but the union rep was very concerned with the access rights of the disabled
I often use the disabled loo, and 99/100 nobody is waiting outside when I finish. If nobody is using it you're not taking anything from anyone. It's there for accessibility not for exclusivity.

I often use the disabled loo, and 99/100 nobody is waiting outside when I finish. If nobody is using it you're not taking anything from anyone. It's there for accessibility not for exclusivity.

That's not true.

There are several conditions that mean people need to get to the toilet quickly and can't easily wait for you to finish. Using the disabled toilet if you don't have a need for it is not on.

I do not use the disabled unless I am in the chair that day or none of the regular stalls are open.
It is that early childhood training of there always being someone worse off than you are.

I do not think it has been made law but one of the things TRAs have been advocating is that they be given disabled designations.

If they no longer have male genitalia it seems OK to me. If they still have man bits, it's a no no.

If they no longer have male genitalia it seems OK to me. If they still have man bits, it's a no no.

This is problematic though - firstly it's how we got in this mess int he first place.

Secondly, the transactivists are right to say it's unfair for a government requirement of a GRC to be surgery - the government shouldn't be encouraging people into surgery.

Therefore I think the best way has to be no TW at all in women's spaces where we're vulnerable.

Transwomen need to fight for their own facilities, just as women and disabled people have had to.

Agree with painted. The honour and tolerance system was OK, but our kindness has been exploited and stamped on. This is how transactivists also threw transexual people under the bus.

The honour and tolerance system was OK, but our kindness has been exploited and stamped on.

This statement demonstrates the power dynamics of this debate that people feel they have given trans people the right to access services they are entitled to use. yes a. society as. to. decide that but once it does decide to change and allow a. minority group rights it is hard for them to then decide it as changed its mind and now wishes to remove those rights without and overwhelming majority of support from the population and a change in legal framework. see bathroom bills in amaerica in relation to this. it's not that it can not happen it's just very hard for it too and would indicate a socilty who is becoming less tolerate of other minorities.

Using the disabled toilet if you don't have a need for it is not on.
It is that early childhood training of there always being someone worse off than you are.
Is that me being told off? I guess I should stick to the horrified looks in the ladies then, and not use the empty and little used disabled toilets. Obviously every time I use them, a kitten dies and a fairy loses its wings.
So if I can't use them, and we're at least agreed that the most logical position to take on transwomen is to exclude them from the women's toilets, are they allowed to use the disabled toilets?
Because if we insist they use the gents it will be more of an uphill battle.
(I know it isn't up to us to solve the issue or to build more toilets but it helps to be reasonable)

bespin nobody gave men the right to use the women's toilets, you are being disingenuous.

Classic reversal of power dynamics by bespin. The power here is with the male bodied people who believe they are entitled to share space with women whenever and wherever they want. Women saying no is not to be condoned.

Our kindness and sympathy for men suffering dysphoria has been exploited and stamped on by men who don't, and who simply want access to us at all times. This is how transexual people are thrown under the bus by transgender campaigning.

Exactly Charlie.

Our kindness and sympathy for men suffering dysphoria has been exploited and stamped on by men who don't, and who simply want access to us at all times. This is how transexual people are thrown under the bus by transgender campaigning.

Quite.

This statement demonstrates the power dynamics of this debate that people feel they have given trans people the right to access services they are entitled to use.

This statement demonstrates the power dynamics of this debate that people feel they have given trans people the right to access services they are not entitled to use.
It has been quite recent that the gender reassigned have been entitled to use whichever facilities they choose.

Turph
No, I wasn't having a go at you.
I was just speaking to how fraught the to use or not to use question is even when you are disabled.