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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Trans women in women only space - a question

96 replies

user1495487816 · 11/08/2018 20:30

Please excuse the username, I can't for the life of me remember my password to change it (it's on the ever increasing to do list)

I have a genuine question, and I hope this is the right place to ask it. I've been trying to find an answer but all I seem to find is a lot of angry people on both sides on Twitter...

I understand the need for women-only spaces, and I support this. What I'd like to ask is: what is the opinion on these spaces being used by trans women who have fully transitioned ie. no longer have male genitalia?

OP posts:
BettyDuMonde · 13/08/2018 10:26

You don’t need a diagnosis of gender dysphoria to self ID though - that’s why we are against it.

VickyEadie · 13/08/2018 10:34

You don’t need a diagnosis of gender dysphoria to self ID though - that’s why we are against it.

Exactly the point. A person need make no 'effort' at all under self-id and is granted access to a range of spaces and services.

WrongOnTheInternet · 13/08/2018 11:47

I can't bring myself to believe that there are enough men out there who would use the guise of gender dysphoria as a means to abuse women to alienate those who genuinely feel they should have been born female.

I'd also like to pick up on this comment, as I see several already have. I'm sorry but it is this kind of breathtaking naivety that is causing the handmaiden problem. Rape exists. Domestic violence exists. Both are effectively supported by the establishment, with just the occasional nod to stopping it every so often. How much more proof do you need that men are dangerous? Dangerous men, or even just typically bloody stupid self-centred adolescents giggling at girls getting changed, don't suddenly stop being dangerous or sex-obsessed because there's a few genuine trans people around.

ZuttZeVootEeVro · 13/08/2018 12:29

enough men

You acknowledge that there are men that would use the system to get into women's spaces, but not enough of them to matter. How many women and girls need to be harassed, attacked and raped for it to matter?

How many girls should expect to feel and be unsafe in supposedly female spaces because of the demands of male transpeople?

Mumminmum · 13/08/2018 12:42

I can't bring myself to believe that there are enough men out there who would use the guise of gender dysphoria as a means to abuse women to alienate those who genuinely feel they should have been born female.
Enough? One rape is faaar too many.
My experience with men is that some of them are willing to do and say absolutely anything to get laid.

SlowlyShrinking · 13/08/2018 12:50

An American man his in a septic tank to perv on women and girls using the toilet. He was found covered in other people’s shit. Some men will go to great lengths to access vulnerable women and children, including pretending to be trans.
www.google.co.uk/amp/www.nydailynews.com/news/national/peeping-tom-hid-septic-tank-watch-cops-article-1.1393853%3foutputType=amp

BronwenFrideswide · 13/08/2018 12:59

I can't bring myself to believe that there are enough men out there who would use the guise of gender dysphoria as a means to abuse women to alienate those who genuinely feel they should have been born female

You sound incredibly naive OP, are you really so unaware of the lengths some men will go to in order to abuse women?

During the 1970's a man known colloquially as 'The Cambridge Rapist' one Peter Samuel Cook dressed as a woman in order to access a women only college to rape, he escaped through Cambridge on a bike dressed as a woman. After arrest he was found to have a whole shed full of women's clothes, wigs and make up.

Under the 'Trans Umbrella' criteria provided by Stonewall which is being used in the current consultation for changing the GRA, Peter Samuel Cook would be allowed free and unfettered access to all female only spaces, do you really think there are no more Peter Samuel Cooks about?

Do you seriously think any women's safety should be put at risk, do you think access to women should be made easier for the Peter Samuel Cooks of this world?

You do realise that 'dressing as a woman' would no longer even be necessary if the proposed changes are made?

Kyanite · 13/08/2018 13:20

I've seen women say "but you can report it if someone attacks you"...oh yes, ever seen the conviction rates for rape or heard about PTSD and what it does to people?

On another forum a lady said how a friend of hers had been flashed by a transwoman in her work place toilets...she could report that to her employer but I can guess the response.

BronwenFrideswide · 13/08/2018 13:47

Can't you just Kyanite the excuses and justification would be overwhelming and no doubt the person who complained would be the one on the receiving end of a disciplinary.

Vickyyyy · 13/08/2018 14:21

This is where I get confused - the stickers going up with "women don't have penises" - doesn't this add to the process of reducing women to vaginas?

How on earth does saying that women don't have penises reduce women to vaginas?! What an odd way to think.

Trousered · 13/08/2018 14:25

On another forum a lady said how a friend of hers had been flashed by a transwoman in her work place toilets...she could report that to her employer but I can guess the response.

This is a crime which should be reported to the police. Employers are not responsible for law enforcement. When you walk into work you are still subject to the laws of the land, they are not suspended for the time you are on work premises. Employers can't make decisions on what is a crime and what isn't and, cannot apply sentencing. Why do people assume employers are some sort of quasi police substitute?
You should not be getting your employers involved in a criminal case like that.

Trousered · 13/08/2018 14:29

Can't you just Kyanite the excuses and justification would be overwhelming and no doubt the person who complained would be the one on the receiving end of a disciplinary.

Why would you delegate responsibility for crime to your employer? Are you aware there is a police force and a criminal justice system? Why do you assume when you are at work this is all suspended in favour of the people you are employed by? When was that decided in Parliament? Or are you just making this up?

SisterMoonshine · 13/08/2018 14:36

I can't make up my mind on this yet.
I think no, not even post-op trans people in women's spaces. Maybe because I have daughters.
I just feel from listening to their arguments that many seem to have a distorted view of women and puberty.
I am open to the argument for though.

Also, the obvious- how could it be proved?

BronwenFrideswide · 13/08/2018 16:27

Trousered and how do you suppose the above incident could be reported? Do you seriously imagine the Police are going to be remotely interested?

The Company in question clearly care not one iota for the comfort, safety and dignity of their female employees as they have deemed it acceptable for this TW to use the female facilities.

Trousered · 13/08/2018 19:38

Pick up the phone and dial 999 and explain you have been indecently exposed at in a women's toilet at work. Or f you don't want to dial 899 there s a non urgent number. are you advising women not to report sex crimes?

I don't think you should do that. Why are you doing that?

standingforwomen · 13/08/2018 20:14

Think of women's only space as a tin of Cuprinol....

If males are in it, however they identify, you may as well paint your fence with vinegar.

BronwenFrideswide · 13/08/2018 20:23

Of course I'm not advising women not to report sex crimes that is a ridiculous accusation but I can guarantee that the only person who would end up worse off in the above scenario is the woman.

thebewilderness · 13/08/2018 20:28

This is where I get confused - the stickers going up with "women don't have penises" - doesn't this add to the process of reducing women to vaginas?

Could you please explain why this would not reduce men to penises?
Why do statements of fact reduce only women?
We know why.
The people inside the genderist bubble do not seem to realize that this oft repeated statement about reducing women to a hole is a red flag alert for pornsick weasels.

thebewilderness · 13/08/2018 20:30

If men are in a "women only space" it is a mixed sex space.

BreakWindandFire · 13/08/2018 21:25

As a related aside, another left-wing forum I'm on is discussing this very issue.

A very 'woke' male union rep has boasted about how he 'solved' such an issue - by threatening the female staff.

I was told by my CEO that sucessfully assisting and facilitating their transition in the workplace was my task.The employee was fully signed up to this and had a say in choosing which manager to help. I thought the kids on the bus would be the biggest risk and given you drive a bus alone, I could not sucessfully mitigate this. Turns out the kids were fine, all the passengers were.

However the women employees at the depot venomously opposed any access to the womens loos and after interminable meetings (going nowhere) I threatened to Unisex the loos. A lot of the bus drivers had no inhibitions on taking their hairy arses and a paper and going to the work loo for a huge dump.

When this realisation struck, they welcolmed her quickly into "their" loo.

Ereshkigal · 13/08/2018 21:33

What an arsehole.

BreakWindandFire · 13/08/2018 21:37

He is of course blithely dismissing the almost unanimous condemnation from women on that thread.

stillathing · 13/08/2018 21:41

Wow break what a horrid man. The women he is so quick to disparage would also most likely have been fine if they'd just been passengers on the bus too and not been forced to share a place they are vulnerable with a person physically male. Ffs.

As a side note, this issue is a great way to show up all the lefty men who never really did like listening to women.

ZuttZeVootEeVro · 13/08/2018 21:41

I threatened to Unisex the loos.

I wonder how transpeople feel about this? Are they ok that women are threaten as a way to force their inclusion?

I wonder if they see that this could happen to them, that they could be the ones who are threaten to make them do something they are unhappy about.

BronwenFrideswide · 13/08/2018 23:51

Yes top marks for that union rep forcing women, no doubt also members of the union, to accept a male bodied person into a place where they are vulnerable by threatening them to have to share with all men. Great consideration of his female members safety, privacy and dignity. What a disgraceful person and totally unfit to be a union representative as he clearly disregards and holds in contempt the feelings and opinions of the women he is meant to represent equally.

You are all right the hatred for women seeping out of the pores of men like him is chilling.