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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Can a man teach feminism?

555 replies

lucydogz · 11/08/2018 14:18

Reading the Guardian colour supp today, an article about gal dem quotes 2 young black women saying they were shocked, when taking a class on Feminism at Bristol university, that it was taken by white man.
Firstly, I see no relevance in his race. But why shouldn't a man teach Feminism?

OP posts:
vesuvia · 13/08/2018 13:21

VeryVerySilly wrote "Of course a man can teach feminism. If a fact is spoken be it by a man or woman it is still a fact"

Feminism is not just a list of facts. I think in feminism, the context and significance of the facts are very important. Context and significance are where the teacher is likely to be influenced by their conscious and sub-conscious biases. I think it is likely that those biases will be influenced by the sex of the teacher.

vesuvia · 13/08/2018 13:32

I think it is likely that those biases will be influenced by the sex of the teacher, because people are socialised differently according to their sex.

VeryVerySilly · 13/08/2018 13:38

And surely a woman teaching feminism is going to be bias towards the subject and skew the message of the movement to suit there own bias then? And if so why is this any better than the opposite bias of a man teaching feminism?

vesuvia · 13/08/2018 14:19

VeryVerySilly, in some wars, one country makes an unprovoked invasion into another country. Would you prefer to be taught the history of those wars by the invader or the invaded?

They are both biased but they are not necessarily as bad as each other.

VeryVerySilly · 13/08/2018 14:44

Well I'm sure if the man was apart of some war on women then I'm sure any university would be mistaken in hiring him, however if the man had done nothing wrong and just wanted to teach feminism then what's wrong with that? And if he is not allowed to teach would it then be sexist to not hire him because of his sex? And I'm sure any upstanding feminist with any scruples would fight for his equal right to a job in education in the same way a woman would?

IncrediblySturdyPyjamas · 13/08/2018 14:46

Good grief.

placemats · 13/08/2018 15:02

What does opposite bias mean?

Asking for a friend. Very

Monday55 · 13/08/2018 15:03

There's definitely a thin line between sexism and feminism.
.
An academia is there to teach facts not to recruit anyone into feminism.

VeryVerySilly · 13/08/2018 15:11

By opposite bias I meant the contrary bias of a female teacher, since it was implied that a man wouldn't be able to teach feminism because of his bias against women which is opposite to the bias of a female teacher who would surely be behind the movement/idea.

TransExclusionaryMRA · 13/08/2018 15:14

I think if women don’t comprise even a quarter of professors the bias will clearly be male.

placemats · 13/08/2018 15:14

Good grief.

placemats · 13/08/2018 15:15

That post was to Very

IncrediblySturdyPyjamas · 13/08/2018 15:23

That post was to Very

Mine too Smile

VeryVerySilly · 13/08/2018 15:26

I think people have a problem with quickly interpreting statistics as something that must be bias/sexist even if men made up 75% of feminism teachers but 4 times as many men apply for the jobs then that doesn't seem sexist to me, and since feminism as I understand it is equality between the sexes, which I interpret is equality of opportunity not equality of outcome.

TransExclusionaryMRA · 13/08/2018 15:44

Yes but we do need to see equal weight given to women’s perspectives culturally.

UpstartCrow · 13/08/2018 15:48

We don't know what we don't know.
There was an example of biased perspective last night, when a poster (who was probably a teenage boy) was not aware of a facet of life that only affects women - didn't think it was important, and didn't want to talk about it.
But it costs women millions of pounds every year.

placemats · 13/08/2018 15:56

Sturdy

Smile
chemistrylab · 13/08/2018 21:53

@dancelikeemmagoldman In relation to your long post yesterday, I agree with what Germaine Greer said in the quotes you use, in one sense, I think equality is what we need to aim for legally and in terms of formal power and opportunity, but I think that she is right that women should aim to see up and beyond. All the successful women I have known have been successful not by complying with rules set by men but by doing their job in their own way, and making changes in their own ways.

But I do also think that some of the comments on here in relation to business have been 80s throwbacks (or even 60s throwbacks). Things are different now. Sexual politics nowadays is nothing like what it was in the 60s.

Women most certainly have been valued in the places I have worked. I was being mocked for saying this, but when you get an organisation offering large amounts of money and good terms then you know you are valued. I realise this will come across as NAMALT to some but the key issue for me in relation to "radical feminism" as set out in this thread is that I would prefer to fight against any kind of oppression (including not related to females) in the most effective way, seeing each instance of oppression as a distinct problem and finding solutions, rather than be limited to female oppression only, and having to see female oppression as part the other beliefs of radical feminists. So radical feminism just doesn't work as far as I can see. It is too limited, too rigid, no realistic end point.

chemistrylab · 13/08/2018 22:08

@peakpant Our choices are limited to our understanding of what our choices are, granted, but for you to suggest that applies to the choices women make is going to alienate quite a lot of women. If we want to do the f/t child care for a number of years because we believe that it would be better for the dc, because that is what research tells us, and we know that our career will suffer because child care and homework drudgery is exhausting and just not compatible with work requiring a brain, and we decide we want to do it even if our dh offers to be the sahd instead, then that choice is nothing to do with oppression. Obviously there are many women who do not have the choice, this is just about women who do have the choice.

As for people choosing to leave law, I know so so many women who have left law altogether, abandoned any hopes of rising to the top I just don't know any female lawyers who have abandoned law because they had no hope of rising to the top. It is a meritocracy in every firm I have heard about. Bottom line, it is to do with billing targets and keeping clients happy, and getting on with colleagues, and not making mistakes, man or woman, nowadays. Women do not always want it.

Oh and as for being a SAHM for a few years and easily coming back to law on a part-time basis- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Seriously the female lawyers i know were being contacted about jobs throughout maternity break, though they were senior and so that might make a difference.

chemistrylab · 13/08/2018 22:14

housework drudgery not homework drudgery

thebewilderness · 13/08/2018 22:35

Well I'm sure if the man was apart of some war on women then I'm sure any university would be mistaken in hiring him, however if the man had done nothing wrong and just wanted to teach feminism then what's wrong with that?

Google Hugo Schwyzer for the answer to your question.
He wanted to teach Feminism so badly that he used his brothers credentials to gain his position of authority over young women.

bifta · 14/08/2018 12:35

anyone who says men cannot teach feminism has become what they hate, a sexist. the first thing you may say is "oh its not if they are men, oppressor, oppressor, blah, blah, blah" though that doesn't change the fact you are discriminating against a gender.

p.s about the oppressor thing i have wanted to ask this for a while. since men have male privilege and all of that does that mean that a homeless person is more privileged than lets say the queen
#notallmen

IncrediblySturdyPyjamas · 14/08/2018 12:57

#notallmen

I cannot hear this without hearing it said as a nasally whine.

Yes all men do have male privilege. That is the point.

Moussemoose · 14/08/2018 13:01

This is teaching amsubject not being it.

Can a conservative teach liberalism?

Can a socialist teach Thatcherism?

Can a man teach feminism?

The answer is yes.

Can a man be a feminist, different issue - discuss..........

AsAProfessionalFekko · 14/08/2018 13:10

If a man shouldn't be allowed to teach feminism, should men therefore not be allowed to take a feminism class?

Should male gynaecologists be dismissed as they can't possible know how it feels to have a hysterectomy, or female prostate specialists be made to retrain in 'female' medical subjects?

You can't bar people from teaching on the basis of sex anymore than you can on the basis or race or religion. If they are an arse then they won't stay in their job very long.