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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why is he crying? Laura Huteson death

284 replies

DrinkFeckArseGirls · 10/08/2018 15:39

Laura Huteson death: Hull man killed woman in 'bizarre' sex game www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-45140580

How often hetersexual men die during “risky” sex games because I can’t think of one case from the news? I know that sadly happens in same sex couples/ participants (can think of a couple examples from the news) but in hetero? It seems it tends to be women who love being throttled, punched, tied up, brutalised.

What does it mean he did not intend that to happen. What did he think would happen.

OP posts:
placemats · 11/08/2018 19:13

The woman was raped and murdered and he's going to prison for 3 fucking years. If you wanna get away with rape, just murder them too and label it as "sex game gone wrong"

It is indeed a message to violent men to rape and kill for sexual gratification and then to claim sex gone wrong. I would add, how did the cocaine and alcohol get into her blood stream?

placemats · 11/08/2018 19:16

We only have the evidence of what Laura Huteson said by the person who drove a knife into her throat (and lied about how her throat was cut in the first instance - she rolled onto the knife - and only changed his story later to a 'sex game' gone wrong.

He murdered her.

placemats · 11/08/2018 19:18

Great rant post ChattyLion

WeWantJustice · 11/08/2018 19:33

Right, latest draft:

Several cases have been reported, of men being found not guilty of murder, after killing women during sex. They claimed the dead women had consented to dangerous, life-threatening acts which ended in their accidental deaths, despite the force needed to kill. The women were not there to gainsay them. (No characters left)

The presumption should be that the duty of care we all have to each other in every situation in life, does not suddenly disappear in sexual situations; that it is not possible to consent to be killed during sex; that "sex play gone wrong" should be an aggravating factor in sentencing, not a defence, that dead women cannot contradict their killer's version of events; and that sexual pleasure is not a good enough reason to be negligent with someone else's safety or to get away with murder. (8 characters left)

Any more feedback?

Ereshkigal · 11/08/2018 20:06

You’d think if a judge can believe a woman would have consensual knifepoint sex with someone she has just met, he could accept some men have a fetish for snuff.

This.

MoltenLasagne · 11/08/2018 22:22

That's fantastic wewantjustice - reads really well

theOtherPamAyres · 11/08/2018 22:35

Gaskell pleaded guilty to manslaughter through gross negligence. There was no trial.

There is a good article from a Hull online newspaper outlining why he was charged and sentenced for manslaughter rather than murder.

www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/jason-gaskell-handed-six-year-1885607

LaSquirrel · 12/08/2018 01:12

Great post Chatty
Why would not noticing make him LESS culpable and responsible for his use of a knife held at her throat? That claimed lack of attention and (or certainly admitted lack of care - who knows what his actual motives were and if they were even that ‘benign’) surely should make him MORE culpable as PP have said?

Indeed. It makes NO sense whatsoever. Unless of course, one is grabbing at any excuse for lethal male sexualised violence against women?

It really has to stop. No 'sex game gone wrong', no manslaughter charge on the table - straight out murder. Sick of the ridiculous sentencing.

Pornographers have complained that viewer demand is such, that there is no where more to go short of killing a woman. That is how bad it is.

powershowerforanhour · 12/08/2018 03:38

I'm a vet and when I was in large animal practice I used to do jugular cutdowns to place IV cannulae in dehydrated calves quite often (just cutting through the skin and loose connective tissue to reach the vein, not cutting into the tough wall of the vein itself). Even with a new No 22 scalpel blade it takes a bit of doing and several strokes. Even in dogs, doing thyroid or tracheal surgery or biopsies in this region you have to apply a fairish amount pressure to get through the skin- let alone any deeper- and it usually takes a few strokes. The carotid artery is even deeper and thicker walled than the jugular. There is pretty much no way you could sever them without trying quite hard to do so. There is no reasonable doubt that would make me believe somebody could do it to themselves by rolling on a knife, or that somebody else could do it to them without intending to at least deeply wound them (and realistically intending to kill them).

Two other facets of this case bother me. One being that torture porn is so "normal" that it is considered reasonable to assume that the average woman would like and consent to this stuff. Another is the obssession with "innocent until proven" guilty...which leaves the woman- or her advocates if she has been killed- having to prove non-consent rather than the man having to prove consent.

So, for example, in the Ulster Rugby rape case the woman could not prove to the jury's satisfaction that she had not consented to a spit roasting from men she had only just met, and one rough enough to leave her vagina lacerated - the laceration itself obscured by the pool of blood in the images of the forensic exam- and still bleeding the next day. The statement "Well she didn't say no" (rather than "she said yes") was enough to get one of the men off the charges because that was enough; he didn't have to prove consent.

Graham Dwyer's conviction was probably only secured because the text records from Elaine O'Hara's phone showed that she had explicitly requested that he not kill her....ie proof enough that she would not have consented to being stabbed hard enough to risk death, and that she believed that he may have intended to kill her. If the phone records had not been retrieved he probably would have used some combo of "she wanted it, the more dangerous the better she liked it" and the "fucktrance, couldn't help it, didn't notice, never intended it" defence, and he might have got a conviction for a lesser charge and a lighter sentence.

This is where porn and the legal system have got us....where men can get away with acting out a real life snuff movie.
.

WeWantJustice · 12/08/2018 07:31

It has become very very dangerous for women to sleep with unknown men

The petition is now being checked to ensure that it meets the correct standards (whatever they are) and once it does, they will publish it

I'll post it here

Poppyred85 · 12/08/2018 09:07

The significance of the alcohol and cocaine shouldn’t be underplayed here either, both in terms of her ability to consent but also the effect it is likely to have had on the perpetrator. A number of years ago I worked with a psychiatrist in a young offenders unit. The number of young men who had been imprisoned for assault, affray and similar violent offences while under the influence of a mix of Cocaine and alcohol was staggering. The psychiatrist I worked with was not surprised. It had become commonplace to find this as an aggravating factor in an offence. I’m not saying this as some sort of mitigating factor for the perpetrator, quite the opposite. The mix of cocaine and alcohol should have been a red flag for those involved that there would likely have been considerably more violence involved than if he hadn’t used.

ChattyLion · 12/08/2018 10:25

Fantastic Justice.

placemats · 12/08/2018 11:14

Thank you Justice

LangCleg · 12/08/2018 11:27

Men do not die from "sex games gone wrong". Women do. At some point, the law must sit up, take notice, and reflect this in legislation and sentencing. We cannot have a situation where pornsick men think their sex lives should be all about enacting the Pornhub top ten and women are dying on a regular basis. The system is failing women.

I will sign your petition, Justice, and I think we need to start a range of campaigns on this topic.

Ereshkigal · 12/08/2018 11:34

Agree.

Iused2BanOptimist · 12/08/2018 11:37

I agree Lang
I am wondering why the CPS invested so much in improving rape convictions, with much publicity about consent or lack of when drunk (even though there have been some very depressing cases regarding this) and yet women being murdered is just a sex game gone wrong and no one is concerned?

ChattyLion · 12/08/2018 12:10

Pam thanks for the link to the Hull paper (above) about why it was manslaughter. I still don’t get why it wasn’t murder. but hopefully a lawyer can explain.

The perpetrator was not up for (quoting from that Hull newspaper):
Voluntary manslaughter – whereby the defendant is found to have had the intent to kill or cause serious bodily harm to the victim.

Instead He DID get:
Involuntary manslaughter – the defendant is found to be responsible for the offence of murder, but there is no clear motive for the act.

...NO CLEAR MOTIVE? what, apart from that he was into the sexual torture of drunk and high women that he had only just met?

According the Hull newspaper ‘In this case it was clear Gaskell did not intend to kill Laura which put him in the category of involuntary manslaughter’.

How is her consent (even to just sex) so ‘clear’?

The article goes on to say:

‘Gaskell does have previous convictions for violence but nothing so serious as this offence.’^ so he has a history of violence- was that all accidental too? Or perhaps he wasn’t having sex with those victims at the same time so with those he was actually, you know, properly culpable for those crimes. But that history is judged to be irrelevant because this time he is having sex with a ‘consenting woman’ when the death, er, occurs. Fucktrance again.

This is the most depressing part: ‘Perhaps most crucially, Gaskell pleaded guilty at the earliest opportunity which means he received a mandatory third off his sentence. This means he would have been jailed for nine years which is at the top end of a typical sentence for manslaughter but with the third off it was reduced to six years.

So he knew the law. But so what? He couldn’t deny it. What else was he going to say because he clearly WAS the killer.

So what he did his best to paint himself as a contrite but considerate man who uses ‘safe words’ Hmm, painting himself as victim of a tragic accident who has to live with the consequences. It’s sickening.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/laura-huteson-death-killer-stabbed-13060800
The daily Mirror reports that:

‘The court heard Gaskell kept the knife under his pillow, and had a history of "taking risks" [yes - RISKS WITH HIS PARTNERS’ LIVES.. HE JUST HADN’T QUITE KILLED ONE YET] during sex and jeopardising the safety of his partners with “bizarre and violent sado-masochistic sexual activity”.

“Mild to moderate force” was needed to inflict the injury, and marks found on Ms Huteson's neck were “consistent with rough sex”.

OK wait so acceptable ‘ROUGH SEX’ now legitimately covers being strangled to the point where you think the man is not going to stop? Just no.

The Mirror continues:

‘The sex was consensual and Gaskell has “no recollection of the safe word being used” when he killed Ms Huteson, the court heard.’

The sex might have been consensual but the throat cutting clearly could not have been. I.e the bullshit fucktrance defence. He didn’t remember hearing her say stop. Why is that even relevant? He needed to be told not to kill a woman? Wouldn’t that mean the intent WAS killing?

If any of us had a knife at our throat and realised the man was likely to use it to cut, stab or slash us, we might well not be able to remember what the fucking ‘safe word’ is* or be able to utter it anyway.

Whether for shock, fear, being drunk, high and out of it, (all indicating lack of consent) or perhaps you know, just the significant pressure of a knife on our throat, or the combination of all three might take our opportunity to er, speak up clearly?

That doesn’t mean we are consenting to have our throats cut too because we have consent to sex. That doesn’t mean the bigger stronger person fucking us while holding a knife in the exact right place to kill us NEEDS A VERBAL REMINDER FROM US not to actually KILL US.

Women are not responsible for stopping men from KILLING THEM. Nobody can legally consent to another person killing them.

The whole ‘Safe Word’ thing sounds highly dubious and part of an impression being weaved for the court by the defence that this is a consenting relationship in which he ‘loved’ her etc.

The pair had just met, they’d been drinking and taking cocaine, he’d previously that evening strangled her during sex to the point that the victim told her friend that the victim ‘thought he wouldn’t stop’- so not at all how safe words work.

That IS how men who get off sexually on playing with women’s lives work though.

I find this so appalling. his insultingly low sentence (that is not for murder) seems to revolve around that she can’t speak because she’s dead.

In court it seems to have been accepted that because she didn’t use the safe word (or he didn’t ‘recall’ that she did Hmm) then it was kind of understandable that he just went ahead and with ‘force’ cut her throat.

I just don’t understand how that’s acceptable. Sad or manslaughter really.

Ereshkigal · 12/08/2018 12:13

Totally agree Chatty Angry

ChattyLion · 12/08/2018 12:19

Pam thanks for the link to the Hull paper (above) about why it was manslaughter. I still don’t get why it wasn’t murder. but hopefully a lawyer can explain.

The perpetrator was not up for (quoting from that Hull newspaper):
Voluntary manslaughter – whereby the defendant is found to have had the intent to kill or cause serious bodily harm to the victim.

Instead He DID get:
Involuntary manslaughter – the defendant is found to be responsible for the offence of murder, but there is no clear motive for the act.

...NO CLEAR MOTIVE? what, apart from that he was into the sexual torture of drunk and high women that he had only just met?

According the Hull newspaper ‘In this case it was clear Gaskell did not intend to kill Laura which put him in the category of involuntary manslaughter’.

How is her consent (even to just sex) so ‘clear’?

The article goes on to say:

‘Gaskell does have previous convictions for violence but nothing so serious as this offence.’^ so he has a history of violence- was that all accidental too? Or perhaps he wasn’t having sex with those victims at the same time so with those he was actually, you know, properly culpable for those crimes. But that history is judged to be irrelevant because this time he is having sex with a ‘consenting woman’ when the death, er, occurs. Fucktrance again.

This is the most depressing part: ‘Perhaps most crucially, Gaskell pleaded guilty at the earliest opportunity which means he received a mandatory third off his sentence. This means he would have been jailed for nine years which is at the top end of a typical sentence for manslaughter but with the third off it was reduced to six years.

So he knew the law. But so what? He couldn’t deny it. What else was he going to say because he clearly WAS the killer.

So what he did his best to paint himself as a contrite but considerate man who uses ‘safe words’ Hmm, painting himself as victim of a tragic accident who has to live with the consequences. It’s sickening.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/laura-huteson-death-killer-stabbed-13060800
The daily Mirror reports that:

‘The court heard Gaskell kept the knife under his pillow, and had a history of "taking risks" [yes - RISKS WITH HIS PARTNERS’ LIVES.. HE JUST HADN’T QUITE KILLED ONE YET] during sex and jeopardising the safety of his partners with “bizarre and violent sado-masochistic sexual activity”.

“Mild to moderate force” was needed to inflict the injury, and marks found on Ms Huteson's neck were “consistent with rough sex”.

OK wait so acceptable ‘ROUGH SEX’ now legitimately covers being strangled to the point where you think the man is not going to stop? Just no.

The Mirror continues:

‘The sex was consensual and Gaskell has “no recollection of the safe word being used” when he killed Ms Huteson, the court heard.’

The sex might have been consensual but the throat cutting clearly could not have been. I.e the bullshit fucktrance defence. He didn’t remember hearing her say stop. Why is that even relevant? He needed to be told not to kill a woman? Wouldn’t that mean the intent WAS killing?

If any of us had a knife at our throat and realised the man was likely to use it to cut, stab or slash us, we might well not be able to remember what the fucking ‘safe word’ is* or be able to utter it anyway.

Whether for shock, fear, being drunk, high and out of it, (all indicating lack of consent) or perhaps you know, just the significant pressure of a knife on our throat, or the combination of all three might take our opportunity to er, speak up clearly?

That doesn’t mean we are consenting to have our throats cut too because we have consent to sex. That doesn’t mean the bigger stronger person fucking us while holding a knife in the exact right place to kill us NEEDS A VERBAL REMINDER FROM US not to actually KILL US.

Women are not responsible for stopping men from KILLING THEM. Nobody can legally consent to another person killing them.

The whole ‘Safe Word’ thing sounds highly dubious and part of an impression being weaved for the court by the defence that this is a consenting relationship in which he ‘loved’ her etc.

The pair had just met, they’d been drinking and taking cocaine, he’d previously that evening strangled her during sex to the point that the victim told her friend that the victim ‘thought he wouldn’t stop’- so not at all how safe words work.

That IS how men who get off sexually on playing with women’s lives work though.

I find this so appalling. his insultingly low sentence (that is not for murder) seems to revolve around that she can’t speak because she’s dead.

In court it seems to have been accepted that because she didn’t use the safe word (or he didn’t ‘recall’ that she did Hmm) then it was kind of understandable that he just went ahead and with ‘force’ cut her throat.

I just don’t understand how that’s acceptable. Sad or manslaughter really.

ChattyLion · 12/08/2018 12:19

Ugh sorry for repost there.

Ineedacupofteadesperately · 12/08/2018 13:06

Chatty i don't think your excellent post can be reposted too many times, ideally to mps and national newspapers. Basically this sentence is sending out the message that you can kill a woman, claim sex gone wrong and only get a few years then on with your life (off to kill more women presumably).

hipsterfun · 12/08/2018 14:13

Agree. Chatty, can you compose a letter and send it far and wide? What you’ve written over a few posts is brilliant.

TheGoddessFrigg · 12/08/2018 14:21

I have to say - that Choking thread in Chat and now this case have made me about as vanilla as it's possible to be. I can't believe that BDSM is anything but hatred of women dressed up as something 'edgy'.

hipsterfun · 12/08/2018 14:33

Dunno, I’m not into BDSM myself but my sense is that there are plenty of well balanced people into it as well as abusive types using it as cover.

If BDSM disappeared tomorrow, there’d still be the same number of abusive, misogynist men, they’d simply find another outlet. That said, I think BDSM probably blurs the lines a way that makes women vulnerable.

SirVixofVixHall · 12/08/2018 15:13

Agree Lang, chatty.