Trans sexuality

[iamawoman]

Just wondering about peoples perspectives on this
As a heterosexual female, I am not attracted to women (my loss, i know). Therefore I would be very unlikely to be attracted to a feminine appearing transwoman with a femininised body. However equally I wouldn't be attracted to a trans woman with a penis, as sexual attraction is not just about genitals, however they are an essential part of a sexual relationship, so this also rules out attraction to a trans male as they do not have functioning genitalia . I am sure I can't be alone on this and just wondering where this does leave trans people in terms of relationships and defining their sexual preferences. Is this transphobic??

I'm also heterosexual.

I have dated 'manly' men and effeminate men; men who went to the gym and men who wore make up; men who had long hair and men who were bald but they all had one thing in common. They were men.

I would not fancy a transman because, in my head and my heart, I would know and believe that they were a woman. I would not fancy a transwoman because, well, I just wouldn't.

But then, as I'm heterosexual, they wouldn't be interested in me anyway...

Lol hipsterfun, it was graphic.

And I had a bit of a ooh, steady on, moment.

But there's no doubt about it, it amply demonstrated what heterosexuality is. It's opposite sex attraction. The end. (Granted, not everyone has it to that depth).

But the point is sexual orientation is not a spectrum. It just isn't.

Sexual attraction might well be.

They are different things.

Heterosexual is opposite sex attracted. That's it. If they occasionally sleep with the same sex because they are sexually attracted to them they are not heterosexual.

It's not a judgement. And I think that's where the problem arises.

It certainly doesn't matter to me what someone privately calls themself if they mainly sleep with one sex and occasionally the other.

It does matter to me if certain men are redefining sexual orientation to mean gender orientation, and using 'attraction as a spectrum', as the basis.

You can't go around telling lesbians that sexual orientation now means gender orientation so they have to accept dick. And if they don't it's because they are exercising their preference. They're not. It's their orientation they are exercising.

It's unacceptable and changing the meaning of language.

Sorry, it was 2LitreBottle who was describing sex, not hipster!

I saw a doc ages ago about straight guys in relationships with Thai ladyboys. The men very much felt they were 100% hetro. It seems like they were prepared to accept the fact their lover had a penis because they were litrially a million times hotter than any bio woman they could get with. These guys were fat middle age English men.

I think younger generations will become more open to relationships with trans people as old predudises about being gay disappear. I think alot of men would actually be open to being with trans women if they didn't feel gay was such a negative.

I think alot of men would actually be open to being with trans women if they didn't feel gay was such a negative.

I don't disagree with that. Internalised homophobia is definitely a thing.

Definitively a thing, and in the absence of it I suspect we’d see fewer trans people, tbh.

Definitely, not definitively.

I'm heterosexual in much the same way as 2LitreBottle. I tried being bisexual in my youth because it was fashionable, but it never really worked for me. I love my women friends and aesthetically I love how women's bodies look but there's no sexual attraction there.

The men who turn me on are comfortable in their own skin. I could never be attracted to a trans person because of this as, by definition, they're not. Also I wouldn't be interested in anyone without a functioning penis.

Finding out actually at the point where you're expecting to have sex that a potential partner has a vulva rather than a penis would really freak me out and result in a total and immediate loss of interest. In fact I'd be annoyed if they had reason to expect that I was likely to be surprised.

I'd imagine that it could be downright dangerous if a man discovers just before sexual contact that a potential sex partner had an unexpected penis. Not that a violent reaction would be in any way justified, but it's still a very foolhardy thing to do.

Lol hipsterfun, it was graphic.

And I had a bit of a ooh, steady on, moment.

But there's no doubt about it, it amply demonstrated what heterosexuality is.

Dunno, I imagine not everyone’s heterosexuality has the same, um, sensuous things going on. Which is fine, of course.

But I do think natal male form and function, and the way we respond to it, deserves description in the same way that we describe precisely how, in form and function, a simulation of a vagina is not like a real vagina.

A neo-penis (if that’s what they’re called) can only really do the business in photos.

Better to discuss first thing, really, I don’t think it would be well received after midnight for obvious reasons

Hipster I agree with that. Many far-right people accept trans much more than they do gay people. As in it’s wrong to be gay but if you’re trans, it’s fine, you were just born in the wrong body. Have seen this with parents of trans children too and of course the research shows that kids with gender dysphoria usually grow out of it and often become gay adults.

Interestingly the ‘born this way’ mantra re sexuality also has homophobic roots. Gay people were forced to defend their sexuality by saying they couldn’t help it- they didn’t choose it. I am sure it is partly innate but I also think that if we didn’t live in such a hetero-centred society that people’s ‘natural’ orientation might be quite different to what it is now. Also, some lesbians like Sheila Jefferies have spoken about making an active choice to only have relationships with women. Doesn’t make her any less of a lesbian because of it.

It's very clear from so many blogs and YouTube videos that there are plenty of TRAs who are very pissed off by the shortage of female partners. I've been interested to learn from transsexual posters how much counselling they got on their expectations of life post transition. The new breed of non dysphoric TW haven't had this sort of counselling and have perhaps never thought much about it. They definitely seem to be working off a totally unrealistic set of beliefs and expectations.

A lot of what they say seems based on fantasies about what women's lives are like, as on another thread, where posters were quoting middle aged men who described themselves post transition as teenage girls going through puberty. They seem to have expected to have plenty of lesbian partners and are bitter and resentful when they realise the truth. And they never seem to register that their sexual expectations of women display classic nasty male entitlement rather than the inner womanliness they claim to experience.

These activists have no shame over bullying or manipulating women into sex - as with the Riley J Dennis video "Are your dating preferences discriminatory?" - which totally ignores the truth that all dating preferences are discriminatory by their nature.

You have to ask yourself is there somthing missing from your life to be obsessed with what other people do in bed ?

Like some straight women tell me and my girlfriend I could never fancy a woman ! We always say, how do you know any lesbian would fancy you ? Lesbians are a lot more chosey that straight men !

Its like straight men are obsessed with what Jo and I get up to in bed, and a few straight females we meet who arent friends
(when they have had a drink )

any straight guys who ask, we always say , well we like BDSM with straight guys , we take it in turns being tops with straight men we like to peg them , we dont !

one ex G/F left her strap , when we split , when Jo,s mum and dad came round for dinner , we washed it and left it drying in the bathroom to see what their reaction was

nothing was mentioned , but I could see her dad looking at Jo his daughter with some pride, as he always treats her as a boy/man , which I regulaly pull him up about

I have some rich cousins in Berkshire , who invited us over for the weekend , my cousin kept saying you wont kiss in front of us will you or hold hands , we did it all the more and in the local pub , everyone in the pub was quite cool about it , my cousion realised she was in the wrong , this is the 21st century !

OP how do you know any Transperson would fancy you ?

I have always fancied a particular lesbian , who disrupted London pride , but I and a few other lesbians have gone off her since that , like I/we would go off another lesbian who was bigotted about Blacks/ Jews /Muslims

OP how do you know any Transperson would fancy you ?

How is that even relevant? And it's often response, which I really don't get.

A person's sexual orientation is not determined by other peoples attraction TO them.

You have to ask yourself is there somthing missing from your life to be obsessed with what other people do in bed ?

What other consenting adults do freely and with no coercion or impact on others is their business as long as it’s private.

When it starts to impact on others we have a problem.

So for example taking a fetish public is involving those who don’t want to be involved - that’s abusive.

Telling lesbians they HAVE to accept ladypenis or they are vilified - not ok. Telling people they HAVE to look case by case rather than just exclude say, all women/men is not OK.

And in a wider context, stuff like the normalisation of choking and anal driven by porn are eroding women’s safety as well. Because they become expected acts, and set the tone of sexual interactions. There was a case a while back where a woman and man met at a bus stop and they went back to his and he choked her to death. The defence tried to argue that she was into choking - now that I find very worrying because it sets the tone that meeting someone, going back to theirs and being throttled to death is ‘just a bit of fun gone wrong’ because hey! All cool girls like a bit of choking. Rather than an unusual and serious assault.

So people can do whatever they want, in private, as consenting adults if it impacts on nobody else.

Once it starts to leave those confines it is everyone else’s business and we have a right to say no.

OP how do you know any Transperson would fancy you

This reminds me of when a guy chats you up and you turn him down, then he immediately starts saying he was just being friendly, he's not interested in you, you're rough, not his type yada yada yada.

Yes, very reminiscent, Radar.

@foxy how did you get so drunk at 13.04 on a Friday?

Sorry I know it’s an overshare, I’m just trying to get to the bottom of why genitals DO matter in the bedroom - at least to me - and why I don’t accept the idea that biology is bigotry. I’m programmed by nature to want certain things as part of my sex life. Being told that what’s between their legs doesn’t matter because it’s how they identify that is all important, well that doesn’t stack up to me.

Biology matters. Clothes come off and identities are intangible. Saying you only want a dick or a vagina on a sexual partner should not be up for debate.

Yes I agree they are making themselves very niche.

I'm with you @2LitreBottle I like my man to be male with an actual penis and definitely no plastic moobs.

I'm with you too, @2LitreBottle.

Why would I think a trans person would fancy me,? Bit of a juvenile response that really.
Who I sleep with is no one else business generally, but as a heterosexual woman if I started accusing gay men of bigotry or heterophobia and making sexual orientation a socio political issue, then it is other people's business. Likewise heterosexual men who are now 'transwoman , who are wanting to change the meaning of lesbian so they can indulge in some sexual validation at the expense of another persons innate sexual orientation

boopsy

Well exactly. Which is why trans logic doesn't work.

iamawoman has the answer.

Likewise heterosexual men who are now 'transwoman , who are wanting to change the meaning of lesbian so they can indulge in some sexual validation at the expense of another persons innate sexual orientation

A person's sexual orientation is not determined by other peoples attraction TO them.

This does seem to be a major misunderstanding among the class of people who consider being told no a hate crime.

Genitals matter. They aren't a preference, they form part of a person's sexual orientation.

I am a straight woman. I only wish to engage in intimate relationships with someone who looks like a man both with and without clothes. A penis needs to function like a penis should. A vulva would be an instant turn-off.
I'm not a bigot or cissexist or any other stupid made up word, I'm straight.

The transactivists are delusional in their refusal to accept this and some of their bullying tactics, particularly of younger people, has been horrific.