I can't tell if the Labour leadership is anti-Semitic but their treatment of women has me finding it not hard to believe

[Movablefeast]

I have been living outside the UK for many years, my parents were Labour voters and my dad was very active in local Labour politics. I can't say I have been following British politics closely except to be completely confused. It feels like the working class have actually been demonized even more since I left the country and I am not sure what or who Labour represents anymore.

No one seems to be representing the population that voted to stay in the EU, no one represents ordinary women for example and I would have no idea who to vote for in the next election. There was always a strong contingent of the working class who voted Tory, in my own family my aunt was always very strongly blue. The Tories seem to have built an image as being more for "working people" than Labour. I could never see myself voting for the Tories but I have found a number of family and friends drifting rightward mostly because of the apparent snobbery of the Labour leadership. I know this is ridiculously subjective. But I was very surprised to find that when I called home after the referendum my brother and two best female friends had all voted for Brexit.

I don't know exactly what I am asking in this thread, I guess just that it is depressing to feel unrepresented and to wonder if I am totally out of touch with my country of birth. I am confused, who does Labour represent and why is their message so confused?

I don't have any answers or good advice OP, but just wanted to let you know you have been heard. I feel very lost politically at the moment.

Don’t vote Tory if you value the NHS.

I am confused, who does Labour represent and why is their message so confused?

You're certainly not the only one. I dumped Labour because of both their attitudes to women and Brexit, having been brought up in a staunch Labour household and voted Labour all my life.

I'm now left in a position I never thought would happen - there is no party for me to vote for, because they're all in batshit land on women's issues.

Corbyn has been a total gift to the crazy fringe of the party, because he couldn't lead a conga line (he spent decades on the backbenches sniping at the leadership for a good reason - he's no leader) and is letting Momentum run riot. All that matters is what Momentum want and if you want to know why the sensible MPs aren't saying anything, it's because they fear de-selection if they do.

I think a lot of people feel exactly the same op

Don’t vote Tory if you value the NHS.

Correct.

Thanks Heresy I know my post was horribly incoherent but that's how I feel at the moment. I feel like after living on solid ground when younger, the tide went out and now I am stranded.

Betty and Vicky I'll never vote Tory but I don't feel I have a political home when women are so disrespected. I don't understand what vision Labour has for the future, it seems fragmented.

Betty and Vicky I'll never vote Tory but I don't feel I have a political home when women are so disrespected. I don't understand what vision Labour has for the future, it seems fragmented.

Movablefeast My feelings in a nutshell!

I'm thinking I'll have to spoil my paper.

Labour as it was are gone.

Frank Field and Kate Hoey are deselected I believe. The sitting MP up in Barrow left a couple of weeks ago.

Political parties are rapidly changing and I expect Labour will go the way of the Whigs.

My current choice would be "none of the above."

I should say that I'm not looking at it from a women's rights pov particularly - just noticed the section you posted in op!

I'm just from wc, labour roots.

I can't tell if the Labour leadership is anti-Semitic

I left Britian a long time time again too. So have no idea what it has been like at grassroots level from the late 80s up to now. But when I had feet on the ground back in the day militant tendency was a thing. The more time I spent with people who leaned that way, the stronger the whiffs of barely veiled anti-semitism and misogyny. Not all of them. But too many for comfort, or coincidence.

I have wondered if the momentum thing is a sort of revival of ye olde MT and the same sorts of attitudes have endured.

Looking at the political landscapes back home and where I am, I'm glad I don't have a vote in either place, so don't have to feel guilty about not using it it. Cos I don't fancy any of them.

Yes, they are.

I'm Jewish, female, and until recent years, a lifelong Labour supporter (and previously a member).

The things I've seen and heard with my own eyes this year - both the misogyny and the antisemitism - have left me completely shattered, tbh.

I agree with you Movable.

Long time Labour voter. Would never go near them now.

Labour is happy that women are being hounded out of the party for talking about women's rights. Momentum positively encourage it and reward those doing the hounding.

The anti-Semitism row has demonstrated that Corbyn simply is not capable of tackling the problem.

He is not, and never will be, a leader. He was selected precisely because he can be manipulated by his close advisors.

It is not a party I recognise. I am done with them.

I'm Jewish, female, and until recent years, a lifelong Labour supporter (and previously a member).

The things I've seen and heard with my own eyes this year - both the misogyny and the antisemitism - have left me completely shattered, tbh.

The thing is, most 'normal' Labour supporters won't believe it because it's bizarre - so is the misogyny but to be frank, that's always been there in the old, 'traditional' Labour blokes.

I think the party has been invaded by nasty people, if I'm honest.

Vicky The antisemitism has also always been there.

My parents were heavily involved in student politics in the 1960s - they were part of the 68 protests etc. - and said that there has always been a streak of antisemitism in that hard left faction.

I don't think these are new people, but I think that they've always been a small faction, and now they have finally succeeded in taking over the party.

Some of the stuff that Corbyn himself is personally involved in is serious nutjob lunatic fringe racism and Holocaust denial.

His support of Assad and Putin and his complicity with the Iranian state is also shocking. I don't think many people in the UK understand quite how extremist he and his circle are. And they have taken control of the party now.

In 2002 Theresa May told to Tory Party Conference "You know what some people call us: the nasty party". I sometimes wonder what the Labour version of that will be.

I also feel really let down by Labour and see them as anti-women, but fascism and bigotry are on the rise in this country and around the world and voting Labour is, in my opinion, the best chance of addressing this, despite their views on Israel, which I do see as wrong. I am also conscious that in practice women suffer a lot more from Conservative austerity. I also think that in this country, in many regions, a spoiled paper is a vote for Conservative. Imagine the lesser evils women have to choose in some countries!

Why has Frank Field been deselected? I seem to remember him as a good sort from when Labour were good.

We didn’t vote in our last local election as we couldn’t bring ourselves to put an x down for any of them. Never felt like that before and I’ve no idea what I’ll do at the next general election. As a woman though they probably don’t give a shit about my vote anyway, as how could it possibly compare to an x from a man?

I think there has been an invasion, but also that there are lots of members that are unwilling to see the worst in people and would rather stick their heads in the sand.

As for who to vote for, it’s always worth looking carefully at your actual candidates - in LE you might have some good independents fighting for uniquely local issues, and in both LE and GE you might find there is lots to vote for in particular candidates. Good MPs are accessible - mine can be found washing up at various local events, for instance.

Regarding the women’s rights issues, remember, we have allies that feel they cannot currently speak out - I know a number of my local labour councillors are anti self ID - you won’t find that written anywhere, but I know that they will be doing the right thing behind the scenes. I’m sure there are Green and LibDem councillors who are the same (I just don’t know them)

Re: the anti Semitic stuff - it definitely exists within labour (albeit mostly in stupid conspiracy theories about worldwide banking control etc, rather than actual hatred or Jewish people) and it definitely hasn’t been dealt with swiftly enough.

Someone I know shared a social media post about one such conspiracy. When I pm’d her to point out that it was a narrative begun by actual Nazi propaganda, she was horrified.
Such is the problem with the internet. I wish I could come up with a solution!

As for who is representing remainers - only the Lib Dems - after the coalition government I wouldn’t trust a Lib Dem to hold my beer while I nipped to the ladies, but I realise this is an important issue for many, so no judgement!

Spoiling ballot papers is good though - I’ve been to the count for both local and general elections and every applied ballot must be looked at by all the candidates and their agents before it can be declared invalid.

So if you write something relevant as to why you can’t vote for any candidates, guaranteed your mp/councillor will read it.

voting Labour is, in my opinion, the best chance of addressing this, despite their views on Israel, which I do see as wrong.

Sarah , I have personally encountered more outright fascism and bigotry from Corbyn supporters, this year, than from anyone else in my entire life so far.

I wish you were right but sadly I think you are very wrong.

Many Jewish people I know, including me and my family, are genuinely terrified to the core of what would happen if Corbyn came to power.

I have been following his career for many years and he is not just 'a bit further to the left'. He is absolutely part of the most sinister, extremist, terrifying, fascistic, antisemitic strain of hard-left politics.

We are really, really scared. It makes me so frightened and unhappy that good people - which I'm sure you are - are still talking about voting for people like this.

Applied = spoiled. Darn autocorrect.

I agree with Sarah that austerity policies hit women hardest - it’s always worth looking at the results for previous elections in your ward/constituency to see how best to keep the tories at bay.

Re Hoey and Field:

Sorry for that. Upon further nosing about they are not deselected but involved in some procedural processes that may lead to that.

GorgonLondon
I am very sorry that you and your family are feeling this way. It's absolutely horrific that we're in such a situation.

Political parties are rapidly changing and I expect Labour will go the way of the Whigs.

^This.

Gorgon it’s utterly shit for Jewish people in Labour at present.

I hope to do what I can to change that.

A friend of mine stood for election in this years local and was described in the press as a convert to Judaism - he received an absolute onslaught of anti Semitic abuse via social media from complete strangers. No idea if they were all members (although some claimed to be) but reporting them all was like antisemite whack a mole.

One was so bad he was reported to the police.

Up until then, some of our friends were still denying that antisemetic abuse was happening to Labour MPs, councillors and candidates, and those denialist friends are all nice people.

It’s as though there is a wilful blindness epidemic. Metaphorically slapping sense into people individually is the only way I’ve found to cure it.

I will be door knocking in Jewish areas with Jewish candidates in the lead up to the next LE - I’m not expecting it to be a pleasant experience (people are rightly angry, it’s not misplaced!) but solidarity with Jewish members and listening to Jewish voters concerns are things I can and will do.

It’s like Lisa Muggeridge says about Self ID - a crisis forces change. Without crisis, no changes occur. Got to be ready to shape the changes that come from the crisis.