Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Consultation of Equality Act enforcement open : Womens' and Equality Committee

132 replies

theOtherPamAyres · 30/07/2018 14:10

"We've heard that enforcement of the Equality Act isn't working. Today we're launching an inquiry to find out why not and what needs to change. If you have information that can help us answer these questions, you can find out more and submit evidence here:

www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/women-and-equalities-committee/news-parliament-2017/enforcing-the-equality-act-launch-17-19/

Sounds like the City of London and other councils need to examine their policies of gender identity's primacy.

Hoorah

OP posts:
Ereshkigal · 23/09/2018 19:33

Some great points Pencils. Yes I firmly believe that the two sets of Gendered Intelligence guidelines the government commissioned in 2016 were pivotal in bringing about the ridiculous situation we are now in with regards to sex based rights.

theOtherPamAyres · 23/09/2018 20:16

A big thumbs up, a round of applause, and Flowers for Pencil

Thank you - I will use this information.

Thanks too, to the indomitable Ereshkigal Flowers for her persistence in keeping this item going. It tends to get overlooked because of the focus (and urgency) on the GRA, but its the root cause of our troubles.

OP posts:
PencilsInSpace · 02/10/2018 00:21

Bump.

Haven't had time to research this further since my last post but will add some links tomorrow. I put a few together here.

FPFW twitter thread is also highly relevant.

We have until Friday.

The wording of the consultation suggests to me the government are not entirely happy with the way EHRC have been conducting themselves.

GulagsMyArse · 02/10/2018 00:56

bumping, will do tomorrow, only 2 days left to do. jeezzz this is turning into a full time job

RepealtheGRA · 02/10/2018 07:26

Bumping for later on. Was going to do the GRA one this morning. Actually I need to do this don’t I?

FoldyRoll · 02/10/2018 10:20

This seems like a critical thing to respond to, but due to sleep deprivation I'm confused as to what to say beyond a general notion that EA provisions for sex discrimination are being increasingly diluted and even overridden by gender identity and gender based discrimination. Any hot topics to cover?

2BorNot2Bvocal · 02/10/2018 11:46

Place marking

jellyfrizz · 02/10/2018 14:38

Pencils you posted this earlier in the thread from the explanatory notes to the EA2010 clicky link

  1. Single sex services are permitted where:
  • only people of that sex require it;
  • there is joint provision for both sexes but that is not sufficient on its own;
  • if the service were provided for men and women jointly, it would not be as effective and it is not reasonably practicable to provide separate services for each sex;
  • they are provided in a hospital or other place where users need special attention (or in parts of such an establishment);

- they may be used by more than one person and a woman might object to the presence of a man (or vice versa); or

  • they may involve physical contact between a user and someone else and that other person may reasonably object if the user is of the opposite sex.

Doesn't that mean that all it takes for a single sex service to be permitted is that a woman might object?

jellyfrizz · 02/10/2018 14:39

Nnnrgh! Bold fail on they may be used by more than one person and a woman might object to the presence of a man (or vice versa)

scepticalwoman · 03/10/2018 15:50

Bumping this thread. I'm just in the middle of completing my submission and it is SO important that women's voices get heard as the women hating organisations will have had their well paid lawyers / consultants all over this already.

RepealtheGRA · 03/10/2018 17:20

I’m really confused trying to complete this. Can I just upload my emails from Topshop and M&S refusing to provide single sex changing rooms?

Theinconstantgardener · 03/10/2018 17:24

Anyone got a link please. Forgot about that one and want to do. Ta.

Theinconstantgardener · 03/10/2018 17:26

Oh found it on OP! That will teach me to rtft!

GulagsMyArse · 03/10/2018 18:40

I'm a bit overwhelmed by this one, Does anyone have have some tips for a simple and short ways to respond. I have plenty of experience using women services that I could use. I'm dyslectic too, and my brain feels in complete overload.

Time is running out. I know I always want to do stuff perfectly, maybe its best just to do it.

RepealtheGRA · 03/10/2018 18:45

GulagsMyArse I feel a bit like you, if I can’t find someone to help me, I’m just going to submit anything. Then complain to my MP that it’s discriminatory and the type of women who have been unable to get single sex exemptions enforced are probably also unable to access this ie vulnerable women who have been imprisoned with rapists

HandsOffMyRights · 03/10/2018 23:07

Thanks - this thread is helpful. Will do it tomorrow.

I have a response from my LA which put gender next to sex. Other than that I may need to just gather a lot of info off here. Can we use 'news' as evidence - Guides? Sorry, not read it properly yet as knackered.

If it's not anonymous so be it, but I think initially stating that names will be published is another attempt to silence us.

I may quote the recent doxxing of Posie and Caroline Farrow and how unsafe women feel.

Serfisafleur · 03/10/2018 23:20

Another thing I need to do tomorrow

WatchThePotatoesBoil · 04/10/2018 00:24

jellyfrizz

they may be used by more than one person and a woman might object to the presence of a man (or vice versa)

Well yeah... It says that on page 16 of the Equality and Human Rights Commissions Guide but then they completely muddy the waters on the following page by stating:

Generally, a business which is providing separate services or single-sex services should treat a transsexual person according to the sex in which the transsexual person presents (as opposed to the physical sex they were born with), as it is unlawful to discriminate against someone because of gender reassignment. Although a business can exclude a transsexual person or provide them with a different service, this is only if it can objectively justify doing so.

A business may have a policy about providing its service to transsexual users, but this policy must still be applied on a case-by-case basis. It is necessary to balance the needs of the transsexual person for the service, and the disadvantage to them if they are refused access to it, against the needs of other users, and any disadvantage to them, if the transsexual person is allowed access. To do this may require discussion with service users (maintaining confidentiality for the transsexual service user). Care should be taken in each case to avoid a decision based on ignorance or prejudice.

Where a transsexual person is visually and for all practical purposes indistinguishable from someone of their preferred gender, they should normally be treated according to their acquired gender unless there are strong reasons not to do so

Where someone has a gender recognition certificate they should be treated in their acquired gender for all purposes and therefore should not be excluded from single sex services.

Usual muddle of "gender" and "sex" even in the same sentence there, but the final paragraph is a black-and-white rebuffal of the viewpoint that the GRA reform has no effect on single-sex spaces.

arranfan · 04/10/2018 11:31

I know PPs have asked this - is there no guidance on how to fill this in? I need to be able to do it quite quickly today and I'm intimidated :)

LadyJustice · 04/10/2018 12:32

Don't be! I have put some further ideas here:
twitter.com/RadFemLawyer/status/1047781082115047425

Knicknackpaddyflak · 04/10/2018 13:05

Thank you for the guidance here. I've just had a bash; this was NOT an easy one to do.

jellyfrizz · 04/10/2018 13:11

Thanks LadyJustice, your reminder and advice have prompted me to do this. I'd been putting it off because it is so open ended.

LadyJustice · 04/10/2018 13:13

Someone asked about literally how to reply. Not same as for GRA. It is not a boxed form. Not v accessible!
So - copy the list of questions in a word document and number them. Then answer as many as you wish to. Bullet points work well. Upload the word document to the same web page - you should see a link.

jellyfrizz · 04/10/2018 13:32

I did as you suggested and cut and pasted the questions onto a word document. Pencils info. up page was really helpful too.

Even if people only answer the one question it's going to make a difference.

HandsOffMyRights · 04/10/2018 17:20

Thanks for the tips - I'm going in....

Swipe left for the next trending thread