regressive and (actually transphobic) supporters of the "woman's place" position

[drwitch]

This is just a suggestion that perhaps we should be careful about retweeting and linking articles that are from the socially conservative viewpoint. writing by people Paul Embrey or Brendan O'Neil and many articles in the Daily Mail for example will often include lots that I agree with but there will be a couple of remarks that suggest that it is the non-conformity that bothers them rather than the need to provide sex based exemptions. It is a very thin line between a justification of safe spaces for women because of the interaction between physical differences and historic oppression and one that thinks women are just delicate flowers that shouldn't say boo to a goose. I think some article on the right get the balance wrong so we should watch out

On a similar note I think the concentration on bathrooms is dangerous it smacks too much of trumps bathroom ban, we should talk more about women only short lists, refuges, sports and pay monitioring

As far as the opening post goes, I agree with the OP that it's sensible to have an idea where someone is coming from if you're going to share their output. No matter what part of the political landscape that the someone might inhabit.

There's no harm with sharing things from a conservative viewpoint, just keep your eyes open. (In fact the trans issue has made me consider conservative viewpoints in a much more open-minded way.)

I see that 2d + 69 = L is yet to make it big-time on twitter. it definitely deserves a wider audience.

Okay take pornography - the feminist and the conservative have the same sort of worries about it so it is natural for them to work together, ditto (probably) sex work

but I have no more in common with a socially conservative thinker that worries if a man wears a dress, than I do with a woke bro who thinks transwomen are women

btw ive not seen 2d+69=L before is it something to do with roman numerals?

Maybe having a ladybrain makes it hard to do algebra?

but I have no more in common with a socially conservative thinker that worries if a man wears a dress

And that's ok, but maybe someone else who opposes self ID does. That doesn't make them wrong, it makes them different. Does it matter? Surely having the left and right come together on an issue is more powerful than saying this is a left wing thing and the right wing are bigots? We both oppose self ID, we have some reasons in common (safety of women and girls) and some not (meh, wear what you like). That we both oppose self ID and we have women's safety at heart is surely what we need to focus on. Look for the things you have in common, not the things that divide us.

Apart from anything else, there will be women who have serious concerns about self-ID who are themselves conservatives. If we agree on this one thing then we can work on it together, even if we don't agree on other things.

It's from a discussion in this thread. The question (paraphrased) was posed, if two people with penises who identify as women are performing fellatio on each other is it lesbian sex?

We are still awaiting a yes/no answer.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3309768-Diva-editor-responds-to-lesbian-rights-alliance-article-in-the-times?pg=15

Tension

so v+d=G,v+d=S,v+d=L
G=S=L
(QED)
??

but I have no more in common with a socially conservative thinker that worries if a man wears a dress

I don't think the majority of posters here do have that in common either, I don't care if men want to wear dresses or skirts. I would add though that the question of whether some men will accept other men who are are gender non conforming is not our battle and up to them (as a class) to sort out for themselves.

what about a girl looking "butch"? Is it anybetter to say that she should put on some lippy than to say that she is actually a boy inside?

On the other hand, the Right-leaning Conservative Hard-Brexiteer, Julia Hartley-Brewer, does a fantastic job on the Trans question, on her Talk Radio programmes. She cuts through bull-s*hit and bluster on Twitter.

On this issue, at least, she echoes the very same arguments as left-leaning radical feminists. She destroys trans interviewees. You wouldn't be able to tell this Right Wing Woman from radical feminists.

Strangely, she doesn't get half as much stick as Radical Feminists - presumably because the 'woke' wouldn't dream of following her. I imagine that she could be a thorn in the side of Conservative women cabinet members, since she is the Voice of conservatism.

Thanks Indie

yes ive noticed that pam

Ultimately this isn't a partisan issue - it effects all women.

It seems pretty obvious to me that, since women make up slightly more than half the population, there are going to be plenty of women across the entire political spectrum who realise their rights, and the rights of their mothers, grandmothers, daughters and granddaughters are under serious threat.
Which makes it equally obvious that there will be concern expressed and similar opinions aired by groups of people who very rarely find themselves thinking along the same lines on other subjects.
Let's not be diverted into squabbling amongst ourselves until after the current danger has been averted.

You might be unhappy with it but others might not. Others might be unhappy platforming gender critical transsexuals. Some might not care as long as the message is being shouted as loud as possible.

This. I don't go for purity politics at all. It's the fastest way to get nothing done.

Let's not be diverted into squabbling amongst ourselves until after the current danger has been averted.

Absolutely. And it what the TRAs are trying to do. Divide and conquer - age old tactic.

Garam please can you explain why you frame the defence of protections and rights of women and girls as being "anti-trans"? Thank you.

I was lucky enough to attend on if the women’s place meetings and the overall position was most certainly Leftist in terms of politics.
I’m quite Right wing but also a Feminist, which some people may think I’m not allowed to be

I will happily stand beside anyone who is genuinely defending the protections and rights of girls and women against this current onslaught.

Hoppinggreen

Begone! Rightwing women are not women

Are you pro-women, garam? Do you believe women should have their rights and protections upheld and enforced? Do you believe women have the right to their own boundaries? Do you believe women have the right to say no?