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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Lib Dems again

19 replies

Floorplan · 22/07/2018 19:18

www.libdemvoice.org/should-i-jump-into-a-debate-with-transphobic-feminists-no-58120.html

OP posts:
Somerville · 22/07/2018 19:31

That woman is so determined to be nice to trans people that she's tripping over herself:

These faux-feminist groups are using a potential change in a small administrative law

This is a very sensitive and unusual issue. It is not like any other area of policy.

Confused

And she's wrong in some of her assertions about what feminists believe and why. Which shows why talking and trying to understand each other's positions is better than ignoring other people, like she's exhorting her audience to do.

It's not the first article I've read recently which repeatedly describes gender critical beliefs as seductive, though. Which I find encouraging - it's tacit recognition that they're becoming more widespread.

Wanderabout · 22/07/2018 19:36

Wow.

An elected politician arguing against listening to a key stakeholder group during an open consultation about law changes.

The Lib Dems have truly jumped the shark.

Wanderabout · 22/07/2018 19:36

Actually is she even an elected politician? Who is this person?

Wanderabout · 22/07/2018 19:39

The last paragraph is truly astonishing:

A fundamental belief of Liberal Democrat philosophy is the right to free speech and the right to question things. But our belief here needs to go hand in hand with some common sense, sensitivity and caution. Because this is one area where engaging with people’s concerns can actually cause harm and hurt.

VaggieMight · 22/07/2018 19:50

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at poster's request.

FermatsTheorem · 22/07/2018 20:05

"Shutting down debate would clearly be wrong... but I'm going to try to do it anyway..."

Wanderabout · 22/07/2018 20:11

False premises in the article:

Wanting single sex spaces = banning trans people from supermarkets

Refusing to engage with one group in an open political debate about law changes = compatible with a deep liberal belief in freedom of speech and discussion

Concern women's existing rights are upholdable in law = faux feminism

Women talking about their boundaries = causing so much harm it cannot be countenanced on politics.

FermatsTheorem · 22/07/2018 20:28

Not to mention the factual inaccuracy of "this never happens" (tell that to the 4 women prisoners sexually assaulted in the space of a single week).

SeaRabbit · 22/07/2018 22:37

I posted my concerns about this 'as someone who has always voted LibDem'. I am waiting to see if it gets published. One of the comments implied they think we like being called TERFs.

seafret · 22/07/2018 22:46

So much wrong with this piece. Dismissive, belittling, factually incorrect, outright lies, rejecting the existence of biology, and so manipulative in trying really, really hard to persuade people not to engage in debate; probably because they know it would blow the whole thing wide open.

It is bizarre. You would almost think it was a parody.

She asks that we imagine we are suddenly being personally banned.. The campaign grows and now they’re banning you from the local supermarket, then the pubs, then the town centre as a whole – except for one hour a week when you’re permitted to enter.... (continues) ...something similar is happening" a debate about the GRA.

No, nothing even slightly similar to that is hppening at at all.

This is the problem at the heart of these campaign groups, that they are desperately trying to define “female” in a way that excludes one set of women – trans women.

Er, no, that would be your lot desperately trying to redefine female to also mean male. We are conservatively and non-radically wanting to keep that definition.

To explain briefly why these concerns are redundant, there is perfectly good, robust legislation to keep perverts of any gender out of public toilets and changing areas.

There is no legislation that keeps perverts out of toilets! The only thing that would achieve that is being in prison or being subject to some kind of restraining order or condition of parole. Though I would quite like to see a law that says "if you are a pervert you must stay away from other human beings unless you are supervised and controlled by a safe person". Life would be very relaxing if we could enforce that.

It’s important to remember that not every person who is engaged in these faux-feminist groups is transphobic. A lot of them have become concerned because they have a friend who told them there was something to be worried about, or they read a worrying article in the media

Those silly, foolish women who just believe everything they are told over the garden fence and who can be so gullible as to think biology means anything. They are so silly that we must not even talk to them. Tell them they are worng and then shun them if they don't listen. Just don't engage in discussion!!!

Not one mention of any reasurance that safeguarding will remain or of encouraging empathy with women who have suffered abuse. Just pleading to ignore these horrible, mean women who would exclude you too if they got the chance.

LineRunner · 22/07/2018 22:48

Lib Dem Voice has many frequent commentators supporting Rennard. And others of that ilk. They're nothing special.

theOtherPamAyres · 22/07/2018 23:21

I wouldn't waste your energy on groups or individuals affiliated to the main parties. For instance, the annoying Twitter account of the LibDems Trans supporters - I forget their title

If the Lib Dems are anything like the Green Party (of which I was a member) then niche interest groups are associations that are affiliated to the party but don't speak for the party.

In other words, they are useful idiots as long as they attract like-minded voters .

They become OUR Useful Idiots when they do things like pressing for a dedicated room at a party conference, (aka a safe space) lest other party members say something out of turn and make them suicidal.

Funnily enough, their demands invariably lead to a significant shift towards peak transing. The Womens' Group begins to wonder why they have no space at the party conference and need to meet in a cafe, because the Transistors aim to languish in a meeting room ALL BLOODY DAY.

Long may they continue to foist their tortured viewpoints onto an increasingly sceptical audience. They are doing a great job for us.

VaggieMight · 23/07/2018 01:03

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at poster's request.

Floorplan · 23/07/2018 06:30

The comments are are truly dreadful too aren't they. I posted a very very restrained comment but even that didn't get past the moderators.

OP posts:
Wanderabout · 23/07/2018 07:29

he comments are are truly dreadful too aren't they. I posted a very very restrained comment but even that didn't get past the moderators.

You should tweet that and what the comment was.

FlippinFumin · 23/07/2018 07:55

Fucking 'cis' women! I hate that word, and anyone who uses it. And I hate the word hate! Angry

Rest of the article, pile of shite and lies. Did reading that article persuade any of you that we are wrong?

Bumbungo · 23/07/2018 09:54

Friend of the Lib Dems 'Cathy' Brennan...

twitter.com/bettydooda/status/1021155268481245190

LineRunner · 23/07/2018 10:01

I'm not surprised Vince Cable is rumoured to be forming a new Party.

AngryAttackKittens · 23/07/2018 10:45

It's interesting to me how close the wording on the bit Wanderbout quoted is to some of the more baffling and frustrating mod comments we've seen on this issue. Did they all attend the same training?

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