It's a sad day when pie has power on mn

[Floorplan]

Why not just engage @mnhq

Sophie - the point I personally am making is that guidance offered to school by trans lobby groups weakens safeguarding to the extent it places children (including trans children) at risk of abuse by all predators, regardless of identification. The point others are making is that genderist ideology is being used as a Trojan horse by abusers, regardless of identification.

The responsibility is on you to distinguish between posts that actually say "all trans people are paedos", which quite rightly should be deleted, and posts which say the political demands of the transgender lobby should be critically scrutinised because they weaken protections against predators, which quite rightly should stand.

You're grown up people. If posts saying the former are being reported, then delete them and smite the poster. If posts saying the latter are being reported, then tell those reporting to bugger off.

It's not rocket science.

Safeguarding is safeguarding. If an individual protests against safeguarding or boundaries then you need to pay attention.

If the tactics or behaviours of an individual or group put children at risk then other individuals or groups should not use the same tactics or behaviours.

We are losing so many good posters sad.

It is sad. It's also easy then isn't it if they're all gone.

Come on @MNHQ safeguarding is safeguarding and not being able to talk about or link to who is responsible is failing in our and your duty of care to children.

Just read the linked thread.
What disturbed me most were the deletions and responses from MN.

Offred is going now - please see other thread!

The responses from MNHQ on that thread showed a genuinely alarming lack of good judgement.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3301266-Safeguarding-girls-and-protecting-women-post-Jimmy-Saville-metoo

When all the people pointing out the tactics are gone, because they have been targetted through mass MN and twitter reporting; who is going to point it out exactly?

Mumsnet are being used and possibly from within - and just cannot see it. Or don't want to.

Clears the way nicely doesn't it?

Wish I could say I was shocked, but considering the way things have been going around here lately, I'm not even surprised really. There is one mod in particular who seems to really have it in for FWR.
Friend of Emma? Anyway off to read the thread. What's left of it.

These are some of the current threads on FWR raising Safeguarding concerns:

Health:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3313760-Up-to-150-youngsters-treated-with-puberty-blocking-jabs-might-not-even-be-transgender

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3308996-Oh-Munroe-the-irony

Education:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3311534-attention-draft-new-sex-and-relationships-education-guidelines

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3312963-Every-parent-should-read-transactivisms-dangerous-myth-of-parental-rejection

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3301871-What-do-educators-make-of-what-is-happening-in-our-schools

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3309052-I-have-written-a-very-blunt-letter-to-DD-school-regarding-their-sexist-behaviour-and-am-slightly-freaking-out-handhold-anyone

Criminal Justice System:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3309758-This-never-happens-male-offenders-in-female-prisons

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3312143-James-Kirkup-speaks-up-again-Are-female-prisoners-at-risk-from-transgender-inmates-The-Spectator-20-07

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3260133-You-need-to-read-this-article-about-the-Leeds-red-light-district

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3313583-15-yr-old-Indonesia-girl-jailed-for-abortion-after-being-raped-by-brother

I'm glad Sophie linked that thread. I hadn't seen it before and even with all the deletions, it's a hair raising read so thanks MNHQ for bringing it to my attention.

and posts which say the political demands of the transgender lobby should be critically scrutinised because they weaken protections against predators, which quite rightly should stand

This

I dont see what the problem is with this,

Ex governor of a school here and dh still is, im as concerned as everyone else on here that safeguarding could is being weakened for already vulnerable children and may well be weakened for all

Excellently put @LangCleg

So glad I am not the only one that has seen through and can see where a lot of this bullshit is going to end up.

This is just awful. there are barely words to say how awful thi is. Child sex abuse has ruined so many livs and my own family's in so many ways. Whay re people not more willing t see the insdious nature of these abhorent people? It is horrifying to think about the threat but denial will not make it go away. I have aregued with people about his in RL. OPEN YOUR EYES PEOPLE.

Thank goodness fo ryou women

Sorry for typos - health probelm. But wanted to show support

"By parents for parents" but dont discuss child protection
Think clearly about this MNHQ

offred I don’t know if you’re still around but I just want to say that it was your posts, along with a few others that made me look long and hard at this issue and indeed about what my entire notion of feminism actually was. When I looked critically I found my position wanting and so I read more. Thank you, truly. I don’t know you but you’ve made a positive impact on my life.

and posts which say the political demands of the transgender lobby should be critically scrutinised because they weaken protections against predators, which quite rightly should stand

Exactly. This whole issue is going to be an example of unwanted consequences. We cannot tar all transpeople with the same brush - the vast, vast majority are law abiding people who want a quiet life and I think we support that. What we can’t stay silent about is the loopholes that will be created.

Because however well intentioned this is, and however innocent people’s motives, it’s going to reduce safeguarding - it already is doing; for example in Scotland the confidential disclosure in schools. We need to be very clear that these loopholes will be exploited. Not by transpeople - by people who want to harm children.

These loopholes will harm children questioning their gender too. This cannot be shut down with accusations that people are conflating trans and paedophilia- MNHQ should delete any posts which imply all transpeople are a danger because it’s incorrect, unpleasant and slanderous. MNHQ already do this - the sweeping statements rule.

What we are talking about here is loopholes and what will come through them. And that’s a very, very important thing to talk about.

Any major law change needs to be scrutinised to see what the effects will be - I don’t think that’s happening here and that’s a big worry.

Because however well intentioned this is, and however innocent people’s motives, it’s going to reduce safeguarding

This. What difference does it even make if it's conspiracy or cock-up? None: the consequences are the same.

I genuinely couldn't give a single shiny shit if the people proposing the liquidation of safeguarding frameworks are trans lobby groups or the Society of Soap Opera Addicts. I'm concerned about the dilution of safeguarding; not who is proposing it.

But what I do question is the reaction of the trans lobby groups to those who point out these safeguarding failures in their material. Information about safeguarding loopholes brought to them should result in an immediate change to the material, not shrieks of bigotry. That shrieks of bigotry is the reaction and the material remains the same tells me a great deal about the fitness of such groups to advise anyone about anything, ever. And about the fitness of such groups to be given government funding of any kind.

If there were any remaining doubt that Mumsnet is an active participant in the silencing and censorship of women, this should remove it.

Mumsnet and Justine are not on the side of GC women, even when we have legitimate safeguarding concerns.

Mumsnet and Justine are on the side of Mumsnet and Justine. It shouldn’t be so, but there it is.

What rubbish bigoldscaredycat. This sort of hyperbole does no one any favours.

I've been wondering about this since even before I joined MN (just over 18 months ago). My experiences with some male TRAs in real life spiked my spidey senses (although I didn't use that term until post MN).

Because however well intentioned this is, and however innocent people’s motives, it’s going to reduce safeguarding - it already is doing; for example in Scotland the confidential disclosure in schools. We need to be very clear that these loopholes will be exploited. Not by transpeople - by people who want to harm children.

I do agree Babel

I think we also need to say that some transwomen are paedophiles, as there are also tranwomen sex offenders against women. There are 3 convicted transwomen paedophiles (who abused in positions of trust not as family members) in my small neighbouring region alone, (that have been reported in the paper) all of whom are MtF. Again it is not female women that we need to be so wary of.

It is entirely conceiveable that these transwomen paedophiles would try to reduce safeguarding for children by influencing policy in their favour.

I want to be able to say this without getting shouted down or banned.

With the steamrollering of women's and lesbian's boundaries that is happening already, I do not trust all TRAs to be able to look at their policies objectively and make sure that see the downsides of the polcies that they are pushing.

When we post here, we are not hiding anything or keeping thing back.

Scrutiny and in particular public scrutiny is essential to democracy.