Is transgenderism a cult?

[Macareaux]

I normally give anything that might have a hint of a conspiracy theory about it a wide berth.

So I'm wondering what others think of this essay by Jenn Smith, who is (by his own definition) a trans identified male.

I find many of the arguments compelling and the only area where I might part company is in the suggestion that for people like Trudeau this is some part of a bigger plan. I think Trudeau is just painfully woke.

transanityca.wordpress.com/2017/08/13/synanon-the-brainwashing-game-and-modern-transgender-activism-the-orwellian-implications-of-transgender-politics-by-jenn-smith/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

I'm not a feminist, Rat, so I have no 'fellow feminists'. It's already abundantly clear which camp you like to set your tent in, I don't think anyone is confused about that.

And saying 'Yes, you're concerned about your child being funneled into a regressive ideology that encourages her tendency to self harm. But I don't see the problem." Is not acknowledging concerns.

It's already abundantly clear which camp you like to set your tent in, I don't think anyone is confused about that.

Er, yeah, it's abundantly clear because I've spent the last 12 months writing literally thousands of posts on the matter. I would bloody well hope it was abundantly clear by now!

Thanks, Rat, I wasn't expecting quite such a long post.

"It's all there - the love bombing, the promise of a better life, the isolating from mainstream society, the scapegoating and othering of anyone who recognises what's really going on."

Er, yeah...

Are you suggesting that we do this on MN? Or what? I'm not sure what your point is here.

Your instinct to be kind and inclusive is actually your "female socialisation" and you need to reject that! Ignore your instincts, men put them there to enslave you.

One this we can perhaps agree on, again, Rat. I don't get this 'female socialisation' thing. But being caring, particularly about children, is what brought me to this issue. I watched this programme and saw children who were being taken to doctors as if there was something wrong with them because they were playing with the 'wrong' toys or wanted to wear the 'wrong' clothes for their sex.

Towards the end (about 50 min in) there is a young woman who was persuaded that she was transgender, and who took testosterone, which has permanently altered her appearance and her voice. Hers is a desperately sad story.

I think many of us became aware of this issue because of the way children are being affected. Mumsnet made me aware of how it might also affect me as a woman, but I still think that is less important and less urgent than what is being done to children.

To bring this back to your point, I don't think anyone here has suggested that we should not be caring about children, or ignore any instincts we have about such things.

When a guy can tweet about the pain of his terrible unacknowledged periods and PMT, and thousands of impressionable desperate-to-be-woke young people thank him for educating them, that they had no idea of THE AGONY OF MAN-PERIODS and retweeting it to their own networks, what the fuck else can we call it?

The cultiest cult that ever culted?

Oh, you mean the comments that not that long ago often included the claim that you hadn't made up your mind about the issue yet and were open to being persuaded?

RE Lang's point, to be fair, the initial "let me tell you about my totally uterus free periods" comments are more an example of "this person is absolutely 100% unhinged and possibly in need of psychiatric assistance" than culty. The worshipful responses and subsequent insistence that the uterus-free individual is indeed experiencing cramps in an organ that they do not in fact have because they say so and therefore it must be true? That bit is definitely culty.

"Nobody is allowed to question the ideology"

Believe me, life is tough when you do.

It's not GC feminists who are saying 'no debate', Rat. Personally, I find it more interesting if people with a wide range of views come on here to debate. It helps me to understand my own position if I have to defend it against someone who disagrees.

"Encouraging children to find their 'rainbow' family and not listen to their actual family"

Your actual family just don't understand what's at stake.

Do you really mean that? Have you seen the anguish in the posts of parents whose children have suddenly, out of the blue, declared that they are 'trans'. I'm appalled that you can come on a parenting forum and say such a thing. Do you really think that a bunch of strangers on the internet are going to care more about a child's welfare than their actual family? Are you really that naive?

Also I'm surprised that some enterprising person hasn't yet established a business selling a Nurofen-type product to the people claiming to experience period cramps despite not actually having anything to cramp, as it were. Maybe they could add in a special yoga routine and some soothing candles too, kind of a package deal.

Your actual family just don't understand what's at stake.

That’s a worrying stance to have. confidential disclosure and parental alienation are very, very dangerous. Abusers thrive when that kind of environment is set up.

Excluding and abusing anyone who dares to speak against the accepted narrative

Yup. Feminists who ain't GC ain't feminists, right?

"Submission" - check
"Exclusivity" - check

As I said in my previous post, it is not GC feminists who are saying 'no debate'.

How many of the same thread, over and over? How many of the same conversations, how many of the same posts between the same people?

But the most interesting ones are the ones where new posters turn up, particularly ones with different views. I appreciate your presence and persistence on these threads, Rat - it helps me to check whether I still think I am 'right'.

"Love Bombing"

Great Post, wonderful post, awesome post, fantastic post...

As UpstartCrow said, that's not 'love bombing' Its just the MN equivalent of a 'like' button.

"Shunning
1 - Those who do not keep in step with group policies are shunned and/or expelled." - Check

Not sure what you're getting at here. MN have suspended some people for bad behaviour, but that's not our doing. Everyone's welcome here, and as I've said, I enjoy a proper debate. Better than an echo chamber any day.

Where are the studies on detransitioners? How have TRA's reacted to the suggestion it should be studied?
Someone posted a video recently that purports to be a critique of Fair Play for Women, and they were scathing at the fact they had a a link to 'detransition'.

There's your cult behaviour.

All this discussion of ‘bloodless periods’ on twitter shows how it’s become a cult. No one is allowed to question the madness or they are accused of all sorts.
There are going to be some law suits in the future

Re "bloodless periods" I keep wanting to say "that's digestive problems, love - have some All Bran".

It’s not a cult. A cult needs a leader. There is too much disagreement and inconsistency within TRA ranks itself for a leader ever to emerge.
It is a belief system or, if you prefer, a religion. Of a very intolerant kind.

The denial of detransitioners is interesting to me from a cult perspective. Christianish cults often talk about people who have left the cult in the terms "They went out from us, because they were not really one of us to begin with".

AAK
Dr Laidlaw got there first
mobile.twitter.com/MLaidlawMD/status/1017267943598579712

People who actively seek this out maybe do it for different reasons and tend to be the ones who end up in the power wielding positions?

What a depressing world sad

yep, unfortunately - once seen it's hard to unsee and hard to think there are enough good people around sometimes. Hence why here and forums like it are so important. We are the voice of sanity and reason.

I feel for your friend - yes illness is another vulnerable point as unfortunately is exiting from DV - many women get recruited by cult-like churches where I am, after coming out of DV and desperately looking for a good community. Many are asset stripped. It's insidious stuff and largely ignored by police etc as it's the mind control and grooming which somehow is downplayed and dismissed in adults - as though they deserve what they get :(

The Cluster Bs are the worse type of abuser - these have psychopathic tendencies so know how to hide and keep within the letter of the law if not the spirit and they are the ones who end up in power. They need to be limited as they know no limits themselves.

A belief system requires faith, allows questions, your own interpretation of ideological text and personal individual relationship with a higher being.

Marking my place to read this properly when I get home

That's a bloody brilliant article. Thanks for posting it, Macareux. Absolutely fascinating.

No reply from @AuntMsVanillaRose I see

when they came back I had high hopes that they were going to explain the reasoning behind spraying insults around

but no, turns out they are a member of the eurgh transphobes brigade after all

god those people are tiresome

I can't help feeling there's an element of displacement and existential anxiety involved. I can't remember any movement so obsessively self absorbed. The amount of energy going into defining your precise, unique gender identity is breathtaking. Meanwhile democracy and western civilisation collapses.

Thanks to the likes of you, mumsnet won't let me describe myself as see-eye-ess, even though I am. I am not allowed to describe Trans Exclusionary Radical you-know-whats in a simpler way than I have done.

Oh no! how inconvenient for you that you can't neatly dismiss and slur women you don't agree with.

It's definitely a cult.

When a guy can tweet about the pain of his terrible unacknowledged periods and PMT, and thousands of impressionable desperate-to-be-woke young people thank him for educating them, that they had no idea of THE AGONY OF MAN-PERIODS and retweeting it to their own networks, what the fuck else can we call it?

Yes.

The letter sent out by Labour's LGBT (sic) group (read about it in this thread) to the people who signed a perfectly reasonable letter printed in the Morning Star, asking for dialogue and for women to be able to talk about issues without being threatened:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3305189-LGBT-Labour-sending-out-Orwellian-letters-to-Morning-Star-letter-signatories?pg=1

Looks a wee bit cultish to me.