Is transgenderism a cult?

[Macareaux]

I normally give anything that might have a hint of a conspiracy theory about it a wide berth.

So I'm wondering what others think of this essay by Jenn Smith, who is (by his own definition) a trans identified male.

I find many of the arguments compelling and the only area where I might part company is in the suggestion that for people like Trudeau this is some part of a bigger plan. I think Trudeau is just painfully woke.

transanityca.wordpress.com/2017/08/13/synanon-the-brainwashing-game-and-modern-transgender-activism-the-orwellian-implications-of-transgender-politics-by-jenn-smith/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

I'm loving the implication that 82% of the population is the cult, not the 18%.

Lol, only minutes ago I was posting how constantly repeating that 80% start in various different incarnations doesn't make what you're saying true.

If simply not being PRO self-ID was enough for someone to be on "your" side, then you can stop arguing with 99% of the pro-trans poster's who come on here.

But not being pro self-ID does not put anybody on "your" side, just so you know. I mean come on now, you're not that silly.

I disagree that some go looking for belonging

It's probably more that some people are more vulnerable to being recruited because of a need to belong. Strong, independent people who are content with their lives are unlikely to be recruited into a cult. People who have suffered bullying or abuse are more likely to accept the welcoming arms of a group of people who appear to want to look after them. I don't think that's victim blaming.

That said, my experience is that some people do like to be told what to do and how to live. For some, the uncertainties of adult life are too difficult to navigate, and being in a perpetual child-like state with others taking responsibility is preferable.

Peter Geoghegan @PeterKGeoghegan
Rees Mogg allowed to declare unchallenged on #r4today that a hard border in Ireland is ‘a red herring’ and will be no change to border. Ffs. No mention that it was day 6 of dissident republican rioting in Derry last night

If you don't want to see it. Magic. If no one mentions it, it isn't important.

Beth Rigby @BethRigby
May must be quietly seething at this pre-summit wrecking ball remarks. Mood music from the top of the bi-lat is that he’s going to be doing a bit of rowing back #Chequers #Trump

And when he doesn't....

I might switch off twitter for the afternoon and pretend its not really happening too.

wrong thread

The leadership one is the most contenious.

There for me is where most conspiracy theories fall down. When something undesirable is happening, it doesn't mean there's some sort of control entity arranging it all.

Look at the shambles over Brexit, it's not that there's a Dr Evil behind the scenes, it's that there were a load of conflicting interests some of which are pulling in broadly similar directions.

It would be interesting to see the role of influencers within these movements. Some people can be influential without needing to lead from the front.

I've got a teenage son, bright, clever but now he thinks he's a girl. Nobody expected him to be butch, we wouldn't care if he was gay. Anything was a possibility. Except for becoming female

Yes it's a bloody cult!

Interesting article.
It's certainly got a lot of the cult boxes ticked, but lacks the central god-leader figure. I wonder if that's an evolution of the nature of cults in the age of the Internet though? Perhaps a single leader was necessary pre-Internet but now the space can be filled by a gestalt entity of numerous individuals.

The incel movement equally seems very cult-like and also doesn't have a "leader" as far as I know, so maybe it's a flaw in the definition of a cult rather than a reason why this isn't a cult.

I know a good number of them are true of the MN Feminism boards though. Not enough that I'd call it a cult, but so many that I'm surprised you guys hadn't noticed when posting those lists

Ohhhh! I missed it. Who is (y)our God-like leader and prophet? Who has special knowledge and who has been threatened with being cursed?

I say 'your' because I haven't been party to any of this.

You have all been off having a cult without me. Meanies.

Anyway, I don't care because I don't want to be part of any group that would have me anyway. So NEAH!

Any of them in particular, Rat? I'm always up for a bit of self-analysis.

"It's all there - the love bombing, the promise of a better life, the isolating from mainstream society, the scapegoating and othering of anyone who recognises what's really going on."

Er, yeah...

"They try to mind control RRH by gaslighting her instincts"

Your instinct to be kind and inclusive is actually your "female socialisation" and you need to reject that! Ignore your instincts, men put them there to enslave you.

"Nobody is allowed to question the ideology"

Believe me, life is tough when you do.

"Encouraging children to find their 'rainbow' family and not listen to their actual family"

Your actual family just don't understand what's at stake.

Excluding and abusing anyone who dares to speak against the accepted narrative

Yup. Feminists who ain't GC ain't feminists, right?

"Submission" - check
"Exclusivity" - check

"Persecution complex
1 - Us against them mentality. Therefore, when someone (inside or outside of the group) corrects the group in doctrine and/or behavior, it is interpreted as persecution, which then is interpreted as validation."

SO MUCH CHECK. Someone within the group can't even comment when they think some other posters are taking things too far because they're accused of" tone policing".

"4) Control
1 - Control of members' actions and thinking through repeated indoctrination"

How many of the same thread, over and over? How many of the same conversations, how many of the same posts between the same people?

"Love Bombing"

Great Post, wonderful post, awesome post, fantastic post...

"indoctrination
1 - The teachings of the group are repeatedly drilled into the members"

Did I mention repeat threads?

"Shunning
1 - Those who do not keep in step with group policies are shunned and/or expelled." - Check

"Gender Roles" - oh wait, you think what? You must be a man. Men think like xyz, men come in here and talk to us like that, you must not be a woman, you're defo a man.

"diminished sense of humour." - I used to try. Don't even bother now.

"A number of different interest groups have latched on to this for different reasons with the common goal of obtaining power and influence" - yep!

God, that was hard work!

It was as hard work to read as well! It doesn't really hang together and comes across as random internal musings.

It's quotes from upthread nauticant, in response to OldCrone. So yeah, never going to "hang together". Thought that was clear really.

I can never understand people complaining about here and still coming back to post - it's a forum - there are plenty about where you no doubt would find like minds

Gosh Rat I remember when your posts made some sense.

I like what Mr Bowl says but yes not in a it's their own fault way just that it does seem to an observable need is some people.

Followers of Genderism are definately cult like but the leadership is not visible enough. Although as a job creation scheme in relation to instructing people in the faith it is quite extraordinary.

I'm not complaining, I'm acknowledging the irony.

Well hopefully it at least made sense to oldCrone, who asked me what in the thread above had struck me as being applicable to the MN GC feminists. As I have collated just that for her; the quotes from the thread above that seemed pretty obviously applicable.

Thanks for saying my posts use to make sense; I'm sure next time I'm using full sentences they will again.

Rat, all you've done is show you don't understand the terms.

The example of love bombing isn't love bombing, and you don't know what shunning is either.

Ah, Rat is here to show how tremendously balanced she is by critiquing, yet again, the GC posters and their position. Can't bring herself to flesh out that balance by ever properly acknowledging their concerns, or even enthusiastically critiquing the TRA posters or their position. But she did a dissertation on the correct way to slice and dice word salad, so she totally has the smarts.

Bowl thx it is one of the myths about cults that strong people don't get groomed - a bit like blaming women who end up being IPV.

Everyone has vulnerable times in their lives - when someone close has died, a relationship finished, perhaps being at Uni and struggling up find ones place, feeling not in the cool gang at high school etc - what the cults do is actively look for people in those vulnerable times and prey on them.

Some other people may prefer a sense of belonging - that's natural as we're herd animals - it's not their fault if their kindness is taken advantage of - it's the fault of those who deliberately use and abuse others

Language is so important around this - anyone can end up in IPV and anyone can end up in a cult - it's not their fault - it wasn't on their life plan- they were groomed by skilled manipulators up to no good

Can't bring herself to flesh out that balance by ever properly acknowledging their concerns

I acknowledge that you're concerned, I just don't necessarily agree that concern is always justified, or that your solution is appropriate. What you actually want is for me to agree. HTH.

or even enthusiastically critiquing the TRA posters or their position

Hahaha, show me a TRA poster who hasn't had their position enthusiastically critiqued long before I get there! Then I'll do it, just as soon as you start grilling your fellow GC feminists on things you likely agree with them on. Deal, yeah?

Rat I asked you to look specifically at the definition of safe and unsafe groups.

It's important.

anyone can end up in IPV and anyone can end up in a cult

I agree and my apologies again - actually a very lovely friend of mine is in a church I’d consider cult like and she was recruited during a period of illness :( she was (and I think still is) vulnerable.
There are also plenty of men who actively get off on grinding strong women down in relationships with control and DV and I’ve seen that too.

People who actively seek this out maybe do it for different reasons and tend to be the ones who end up in the power wielding positions?

What a depressing world :(

It's definitely a cult.

When a guy can tweet about the pain of his terrible unacknowledged periods and PMT, and thousands of impressionable desperate-to-be-woke young people thank him for educating them, that they had no idea of THE AGONY OF MAN-PERIODS and retweeting it to their own networks, what the fuck else can we call it?

Sorry Red, I missed that. Look, I'll reiterate what I said in my first post; I don't think GC Feminism is a cult at all. I just found it amusing that some of the traits being ascribed to transgenderism (to equate it to a cult) are equally present in GC Feminism. And it amused me that no one seemed to clock that when typing out their posts.

That's all!