Repeat after us: TWAW

[Floorplan]

Is this some kind of joke? No its real.

But here is page after page of people throwing scorn on the simple message that trans women are women. And that's it, isn't it? The activism isn't about safety, or the erasure of lesbianism but has one foundation : a refusal to accept trans women as women.

Like a refusal to believe 2 + 2 = 5. I refuse to accept a lie. The threats to women's safety and the erasure of lesbians stem from that first lie.

I've been thinking more about this thread and why the 'repeat after us' bit bothers me so much. Let's take another faith-based position, religion. I don't believe in religion, but I respect the rights of others to do so.

Someone putting up the message 'Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour' across buildings in London that way - completely harmless, even though I don't agree with it. It's an expression of belief, it doesn't force that belief on others.

'Repeat After Us: Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour.' Suddenly very sinister.

TRAs made a massive error with TWAW.

We might use / have used the little white lie of preferred pronouns, and pretend we don't realise when a TW is in our bathroom, but we cannot be compelled to deny reality. It is abusive to try to force us to do so.

REPEAT AFTER US: YOU'VE LOST. ENJOY YOUR ERASURE.

I think the engagement with Snappity is mostly for the benefit of the lurkers. Certainly nobody is under the impression that we can reason with them.

Absolutely.

It's useful to show people, who are just coming here, fresh, exactly why feminists are concerned.

Not just the more unhinged statements, but the robotic determination to force women, by sheer, relentless domination, to comply.

It's also useful to show lurkers how no one does.

I was brought up in a farming community where every second word was a swear word

How very farmphobic of you. I was brought up on a farm, granddaughter of farmers on both paternal and maternal sides of the family, farms which are fully functioning today and I have never heard anyone male or female use the word bitches to describe anything other than female dogs.

Shame on you

Sometimes realizing both that there are people attempting to force women to do something and that there are other women saying no is just what's needed.

My partner's godmother was born and raised on a farm. She will never swear or say a bad word about anyone.
She would say TWAW out if politeness but wouldn't believe it for a second.

FeminaSum

Yes. As I said in my previous post.

I have literally been held against my will in a room, as a child, sat on a chair, surrounded by a group of standing men, told I will not be allowed out until I have accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord & Saviour and been 'saved.'

I don't react well to groups of men telling me what to do and what to believe.

The activism isn't about safety, or the erasure of lesbianism but has one foundation : a refusal to accept trans women as women.

When women say, with perfect truth, that a woman is an adult human female, this isn't a refusal to accept, it's pointing out that to claim transwomen are women is a ¢ategory mistake, Snappity.

You can't describe transwomen as women because they don't fit the category. Being a woman is defined by reproductive role (not function, I hasten to add). Being a feminine or feminised male doesn't qualify.

It's as simple as that. It's biology that refuses to accept that transwomen are women. We're just pointing out that women need sex based protections, that human beings cannot change sex and that males should not be in sex segregated spaces, however they identify.

The Equality Act does not accept trans people are either women or lesbians;

• A man who experiences sexual attraction towards both men and women is “bisexual” in terms of sexual orientation even if he has only had relationships with women.

• A woman who is attracted only to other women is a lesbian

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/2/1/9/3

Now I’ve got an ‘I’m a little teapot’ ear worm.

That's exactly it Prawn.

But here is page after page of people throwing scorn on the simple message that trans women are women.

It’s biologically incorrect. It is an incorrect statement - it is, if we are going to be plain about it, a lie.
It’s a lie that will have severe consequences if it’s encoded in law.

And nobody believes it. I’ve asked probably a hundred people on here if they believe humans can change sex. I’ve had post after post of waffle, obfuscation and conflation with gender but nobody yet has said they believe it to be true. No one! Don’t you think that’s remarkable? Because I’m being told I’m a bigot for not accepting it, but no one will actually come out and say they believe it. If I say I don’t believe it I’m stoned by the mob, but the mob won’t stand up and say they believe what they’re stoning me for. It’s extraordinary. I cannot think of another situation like it.

And now it’s projected on the side of the MOJ, with a ‘repeat after me’ imperative before it. That’s really not ok is it?

I'm another one who thinks that maybe the wording was deliberately intended to highlight the absurdity of the proposition. They could have just put: "Transwomen are women". The "Repeat after us" undercuts the message completely.

Anyone else curious about who's behind this?

As others have said, Shon Faye is at Dazed and has tweeted about this.

Therefore I don't think the 'Repeat after us' Orwell reference is ironic.

Which is kind of horrifying to be honest.

Oohh, interesting hackmum

Actually have just looked at Shon's tweet about this and there is a grand total of 6 replies, all positive. Not one critical tweet. Which makes me think he has been a blocking again.

Say what you like about Munroe Bergdorf (and god knows I do) but at least Munroe allows their criticism to stand.

Is Snappity really intersex?

Of is Snappity intersex in the way a male-born person who wants to be a woman (I've been missing a few days, what term am I meant to use here) is really an infertile woman?

Because if that's the case Snappity is being as dismissive and outright insulting to intersex people as Snappity is to women

Do what now?

Mantras are TRAs...

Bowlofbabelfish , I find it interesting that since you (and others) started asking the simple question "do you believe a human can change sex" the narrative has changed.

Even a year ago on here there were lots of posts about men (and women) transitioning. There were references from posters who would have thought themselves very pro-trans referring to people changing gender/sex etc etc.

Now it's all "we were born this way, we are biological females, our bodies are female (including our penises), we are women".

Now that the use of certain (three letter) acronyms are banned, how long will it be before the use of the word transition is banned? If things carry on at this rate next year the signs will say "women are women" with half of the women carrying them being, quite obviously, men.

It's a bit scary.

Now it's all "we were born this way, we are biological females, our bodies are female (including our penises), we are women"

I’ve seen that too. And the question then (which another poster asked first) is then what are you transitioning FROM?

You make a very good point - I’ve also seen a pattern of a certain stance or challenge come through via different posters - almost spitballing if people have a good comeback. There’s probably a forum somewhere organising, who knows?

Bowl, yep, I totally believe there is a place where tactics are discussed before things are employed here. We joke about HQ sending their quirky recruits in, but I think there's a grain of truth in it.

The sinister, authoritarian command to "repeat after me..." is beautifully ambiguous.
Say the words in the voice of a hypnotist.
Or a sergeant major.
Or a patronising know-it-all

Wouldn't most people turn off and say "no-one orders me around and tells me what I must think and say, thank you very much" ?

If the message is supposed to show support for transpeople then it has backfired, in my opinion.
If it challenges people to think critically about the command to view transwomen as women, then I raise my hat to the gender critical stunters.

Thanks for your support!

Mustn't forget TRA=MRA

Cause...
#TranswomensRightsActivistsAreMensRightsActivists