Misgendering - How do biological women handle it?

[SpareRibFem]

I've been misgendered quite often over my life. I'm interested in how other biological women handle it as I'm sure I'm not the only one this happens to (might be a very short thread if I am)

Note. This post is not intended to look at how TW handle it or how we think they should. I'm not deliberating excluding them but there's been plenty written by TW on misgendering and I'm interested in the biological woman's perspective as the problem is not unique to trans women or trans men.

For background I have quite strong facial features and shortish but feminine styled hair, I also have a very obviously female physique - Am I allowed to say that here?

I've been misgendered on occasion since I was a child, (like most children when I was growing up I wore gender neutral clothes) even happened when I was heavily pregnant

Sometimes it's been very deliberate to make the point they felt I was (unwelcome) in a male (work) environment and the intention was to exclude me.

Sometimes it's been rudeness, using gentlemen for example because predominantly men in the room and can't be bothered to adapt for women present

Sometimes it's accidental, service personnel calling me sir when they are addressing me directly.

Sometimes it's patriarchal for example official correspondence that starts Dear Sir because they assume they are addressing a man. Which annoys me.

I've never been entirely sure how to handle it. For service personnel I assume it's accidental and blink slightly as I've been female since birth and don't have a deep voice, Then I go with it and hope they don't get embarrassed when (if) they realise they've made a mistake.

In a group situation where they are referring to gentlemen I sometimes flag that there is also a lady present to make the point that they are being exclusive but sometimes it's just not worth it, I think this is the only time I correct people.

Letters I want to write something along the lines of 'women exist too' and return but life's too short.

To (possibly mis)quote an Alison Moyet song, 'It makes me feel like I'm invisible'. It isn't that I personally feel invisible but I feel like women are invisible

My mum and I both get this a lot because of short hair and for me, a more masculine face shape. My little brother's friends always used to assume I was his older brother. They were quite embarrassed when I corrected them.

I get called 'sir' a fair bit when out and I have even had letters and emails addressed to 'Mr' because I have a unisex name. When it's something important, I correct it, but mostly I either laugh it off or go along with it. I can't say it has ever bothered me.

Face to face, never happens, too curvaceous

Online, frequently. International male dominated industry. Can make the future face to face funny as you watch their face as it dawns on them

The only time I got really irritated was when at work I got a phone call for Mr babe, and they didn't take the hint when I replied "speaking" I ended up asking "do you want ms babe or my dad only he doesn't work here . "

I was regularly misgenderef as a skinny androgynous shaved headed teen in the 70's and 80's as was my then heavily made up boyfriend it never bothered either of us that I recall but cis me and I get serious rage go figure

BarackThere's nothing in 2018 that makes generic trousers the territory of either sex. They really are, as a concept, a unisex garment. Just trousers, for either sex.

Yes you made your position clear on the school thread- pick the default option which just happens to be the one the vast majority of men would choose and to hell with any girl who for whatever reason wanted a choice.

Thinking on this thread it really is quite odd that the only times I have been misgendered is by feminists on MN.

I am tall and broad and am sometimes mistaken for a man from behind. I also have a deep voice from too many years' smoking and I am often misgendered on the phone. It makes me feel self-conscious tbh.

Can you clarify your own position Lass?
As you say, I've tried to make my own clear. Which is that since women first fought for the right to wear bloomers we've had the right to wear trousers and they've ceased to be male only property.
I also support the rights of men to wear skirts too.
That they avoid them for daily wear is interesting.

I don't give a hoot what your own personal sartorial choices are but on every thread this issue comes up on you seem to give the impression that you believe trousers should remain a male preserve.

Do you actually believe they should be just for men, and women should stick to skirts and dresses?

In your opinion, should it really be only men that wear the trousers?

There is no particular reason that skirts/dresses couldn't be unisex, plenty of cultures wear undivided material to cover male as well as female legs. But in the west skirts are very much marketed to and worn by women and girls and trousers to both sexes. At my children's no uniform schools the vast majority of children are wearing trousers or shorts, with only a very small number of girls wearing skirts or dresses.

On the being thought male while being female front both me and dd get this a fair bit. Mostly I think because we are tall with short hair and look relatively androgynous. It's generally pretty clear it's a mistake because the other person on realising usually gets very embarrassed, even though it's not an issue for us. ds got called a girl a bit when he was younger which seemed to be more of a negative comment about his hair being too long. He wasn't bothered though so it backfired a bit.

I've always got the impression that Lass enjoys wearing feminine clothing and thinks women and girls should be able to be feminine if they want to be, so less defending men's rights to have trousers considered as male wear and more defending womne's rights to wear feminine clothing should they so desire.

I am often in a professional setting that is very male dominated and while I tend to wear trousers personally I quite like to see women in that setting standing out as opposed to blending in. One way to do that is to choose (for example) a pretty dress, or a vibrant colour.

Has never happened in person, even with short hair and wearing baggy overalls. Happens all the time online. Men assume I am a man because of the way I write.
One time on Lawyers, Guns, & Money I was accused of being effeminate because of a word I used. The regular commenters mocked the accuser with great glee.

I work in a male-dominated office, and it is fairly common to be addressed as "sir" in the canteen, when the person on the till looks at what's on the tray, then what's on the till, "that's £4.68, sir," then they look up and apologise and are embarrassed, but I just laugh.

I am more ambivalent about the times I've been ... ungendered, rather than misgendered. I've pulled up colleagues (all male) on objectifying or sexist comments, and a couple of times, had the response, "you don't count, you're one of us!" So I'm seen as part of the team - but at the expense of being seen as female. The colleague who said, "you can think logically because you don't have enough female hormones," was just out of order (and wrong about the lack of hormones,) but I was so taken aback, I didn't say anything, I was trying to work out if I'd heard correctly. I was quite offended once it had sunk in, though.

I did get booked into a hostel in a men''s dorm earlier this year. The initial error was mine, and their lack of double checking with the form, but it was never questioned when I checked in with my long hair and top with sparkles on. I didn’t notice then, as no one else was there when I went into the dorm, and I did sleep well - but it could have been very different. They say they have reviewed and updated their processes since, so it shouldn't happen again, which is the main thing, but I am still confused about how it wasn't even questioned at check-in - I had eye-contact with the bloke behind the counter. I'm pretty sure I don't look or sound male and my ID said I was female.

It has happened online on other forums, which can be interesting. At work, I do get pissed off with men on the phone who assume I must be admin staff, not technical staff, which is making assumptions about gender roles, which is sort other the other way round. That offends me far more than being called sir, though if I were being called sir because someone couldn't get their head round the thought of a female Unix sys admin, rather than just not paying attention, I might reach comments-to-their-manager levels of annoyance.

Sometime back in the '90s, when I used to get invited to black tie do's, I did go to one in black tie, because I could afford to buy a bow tie, but not a dress, and I already had black trousers, jacket, waistcoat and a white shirt. Everyone said I looked amazing, but even then, I thought if a man had turned up in a dress, he'd have been far more likely to have been refused entry.

Has never happened in person, even with short hair and wearing baggy overalls. Happens all the time online. Men assume I am a man because of the way I write

Interesting. You have a very direct and forceful style.

I have very little online presence beyond a couple of music forums where sex/gender is pretty irrelevant. The only other one is here where women were telling me I am a man.

I've always got the impression that Lass enjoys wearing feminine clothing and thinks women and girls should be able to be feminine if they want to be, so less defending men's rights to have trousers considered as male wear and more defending womne's rights to wear feminine clothing should they so desire

Yes because it comes across loud and clear from some posters on FWR that they not only dislike feminine clothing but that they actively dislike the fact other women like it. The "anyone can wear anything" claims ring a bit hollow.

The other online fora I frequent (Reddit, some gaming sites) presume that I am male. Usually I don't bother to correct them

I also support the rights of men to wear skirts too

Do you Baracker? You seem to support that more than the rights of girls to do so. Your position in the school thread was you were happy for that right to be taken away from girls. You say yourself very few boys would opt for it so the effect is the majority male preference becomes the default- regardless of what the female preference might be.

I have never said what you attribute in your questions and won't bother answering them.

some gaming sites) presume that I am male. Usually I don't bother to correct them

Presumably they are not calling you a man to try to invalidate your opinion ?

The opposite, I suspect, Lass. Because they assume I am male my opinion has value to them

It sorta happened to be directly as a teenager. I had short hair at the time and was mucking around wearing a guy friend's hat and jacket when a group of boys thought it was appropriate to come up to us to tell me they thought I was a boy when they first saw me, and suggested that I grow my hair and wear girls clothes if I ever wanted to get a boyfriend. I laughed in their faces which they seemed bummed about and left...
I haven't experienced it in group settings as I work mostly with other women.

I have short hair, large facial features and broad shoulders, plus a somewhat deeper voice than most women. When I was skinny in my 20s I was mistaken for a man all the time; now that I'm quite fat and have more prominent breasts and hips, I only get misgendered occasionally over the phone.

I never actually cared about it personally. I know I'm a woman and it has always been my choice to present myself in a less "feminine" way. I just don't think "misgendering" is a big deal to those of us whose identity doesn't depend on how others perceive us.

I have a unisex first name and I work in senior leadership in the public sector. Often I visit other sites to coach/mentor other leaders, after email contact.

I often get "oh we were expecting a man". Doesn't bother me on a personal level but shows just how much we expect leaders to be men.